The Crisis in Darfur

[h2orowe]

I've been meaning to make a thread about this for a great while now and, sadly, I mean for the past two years, but every time I did, I always got distracted with either school work or free time.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you already know about this. It's happening in Eastern Sudan in Africa. It is, although the U.N. doesn't recognize it as one, a genocide. The government is using Arab African military groups known as Janjaweed to obliterate pretty much any/all Black African people in the region. I don't have a very firm grasp on how it started and I have forgotten quite a bit because, as guilty as I feel to say this, I haven't paid attention to it for some while because I was worried it'd depress me too much to look at it in greater detail, but as my Vietnamese teacher (who was a refugee from Vietnam when Saigon fell) says "Sometimes being depressed shows you you're human."

From what I understand, it started more or less because of the Sudanese civil war. After that ended, the Black Africans part of Darfur had very little say in politics and lesser rights than the Arab African population of Darfur. This lead to the forming of two rebel groups which lead to the government's response of a Scorched-Earth campaign against the Black African population. The Janjaweed has used very brutal tactics in order to cleanse the land of these people. They've used rape, displacement, planned starvation, and pretty much just mass murder (I forgot exactly what website I got it from and tried to look up the source, but it seems that most websites like Save Darfur or Genocide Intervention list those tactics in almost the same order.)

The last time I looked at the statistics (Which was last night actually) it was estimated that around 400,000 people have been killed by the Janjaweed and I think 2.5 million people displaced. That's a lot of people without homes and a lot of people dead. It's not just the rebel groups who are being targeted, but innocent civilians.

So, has anyone else followed this? I first heard about it when they did the day of fasting in protest two years ago (almost exactly, I think.) I found out a day too late and instead fasted the next day. This sort of thing just startles me that it's not widely talked about. It's something everyone should know about and most, if not all, people should care about to at least a certain extent.

I was reminded of bringing up the topic because I got my Save Darfur shirts in the mail today. Ordered them with some of my financial aid money. Got two for me and one for my girlfriend. They're pretty slick looking in actuality and only cost $10 each on the Save Darfur website. I tried ordering one last year but, at the time, I had to rely on my grandpa's debit account which didn't have enough funds to pay for the shirt, so, I had to wait until I had my own card to get them.

Here's some links of interest:
http://www.savedarfur.org/content
http://www.genocideintervention.net/educate
http://yhst-88482264721289.stores.yahoo.net/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_crisis

(If I got any facts wrong or typed this out awkwardly, I apologize. I just spent some time writing a speech about foreign policy and I've been sick. I'm also pretty damned tired right now.)

[ryobreak]

" I don't have a very firm grasp on how it started and I have forgotten quite a bit [...] I haven't paid attention to it for some while because I was worried it'd depress me too much to look at it in greater detail [...] I was reminded of bringing up the topic because I got my Save Darfur shirts in the mail today."

I lol'ed. I'm asuming you're a genuine philanthropist or you've been caught up in the Save Darfur fad. Maybe a bit of both^^.

Yeah, it sucks. War sucks. But hey, it's been a persistent thorn in just about as long as our history's been recorded, hasn't it?

I can offer two words on the Darfur conflict: proxy war.

btw, on a more personal note, I think the profound meaning of our signatures are similar. :D"

[Beowulf]

" I don't have a very firm grasp on how it started and I have forgotten quite a bit [...] I haven't paid attention to it for some while because I was worried it'd depress me too much to look at it in greater detail [...] I was reminded of bringing up the topic because I got my Save Darfur shirts in the mail today."

I lol'ed. I'm asuming you're a genuine philanthropist or you've been caught up in the Save Darfur fad. Maybe a bit of both^^.

Yeah, it sucks. War sucks. But hey, it's been a persistent thorn in just about as long as our history's been recorded, hasn't it?

I can offer two words on the Darfur conflict: proxy war.

btw, on a more personal note, I think the profound meaning of our signatures are similar. :D"
Wow you are just so fucking edgy aren't you! My sensibilities, they are offended :gloomy:

Now, how the fuck is Darfur a proxy war?

[stsparky]

China needs to stop its' support of the Sudanese makers of genocide.

[Beowulf]

China needs to stop its' support of the Sudanese makers of genocide.
Agreed. That doesn't make it a proxy war though as China's only interest in the region is a nearby supply of oil other then the MidEast.

[SlickWilly440]

I thought Darfur was the place where Sadam sent his airplanes to spray nerve gas over the villages, killing many men, women, children, etc.

t's something everyone should know about and most, if not all, people should care about to at least a certain extent.

Sorry, my care-o-meter is still pointing at zero percent, but my apathy-o-meter is pointing at one hundred percent. Even if I did care a little, that wouldn't change anything, much like talking the talk, but not walking the talk.

I think the profound meaning of our signatures are similar.

Yeah, I've watch that anime, but seeing that one segment played back in a loop made believe she is licking the end of a......

[archdukezeb]

I thought Darfur was the place where Sadam sent his airplanes to spray nerve gas over the villages, killing many men, women, children, etc.

Bravo SlickWillly. Bravo.



Sorry, my care-o-meter is still pointing at zero percent, but my apathy-o-meter is pointing at one hundred percent. Even if I did care a little, that wouldn't change anything, much like talking the talk, but not walking the talk.

But then you care enough to write a post about how much you don't care. Interesting..... :watson:

[mugen]

I thought Darfur was the place where Sadam sent his airplanes to spray nerve gas over the villages, killing many men, women, children, etc.
Willy I've got to tell you man. You've said some dumb things over the years. But that line right there, that shit takes the cake.

Seriously dude, I hope you are joking.

[geesehoward4life]

One of the things that I have always found interesting, but certainly not amazing. Is when I see Black people curse and get angry and upset about how White Europeans as well as Americans, used Christianity as a tool of subjugation, control and justification for their treatment of Blacks, regardless of region.

While all of that is talked about until dry-mouth sets in, I have always found their literal lack of knowledge and understanding of the fact that Arabs did the same thing and in many instances far worse, using Islam in North Africa. The situation in Darfur is not hundreds of years old, but is actually thousands of years old. I still have my old globe from when I was growing up, when Egypt used to be flat-out called the Arab Republic of Egypt. Anwar Sadat got himself in trouble by being honest and open about the fact that those there now, ARE NOT the indigenous people. But he only started speaking up, when he finally had no choice to admit that race, especially by skin-color, is a huge issue in North Africa. I'd have to say that Japans fears of being overrun by foreigners is actually personified in North Africa, where the indigenous Blacks always fought against the Arabs who were always looking for more arable land and after numerous different means of trying to take the land? They eventually found that Black peoples tolerance was actually a tool that could be exploited for their own eventual gain.

Modern day Southern Sudanese will be the first to tell you EXACTLY where their family lines originated and many will point to Egypt and lament the fact that their ancestors made the grim mistake of falling for talk of brotherhood and Islam and the like, only for it to be used as a wedge to introduce Arabic culture and society to the Black society at large, by way of marrying into the Royal Family and then subverting the rulership. It always led to a clash between the People and the Rulers, which of course led to internal instability. During those times, Arab migrations and immigration would increase as the new Caliph/Pharoah, would call in support from Arabia to try to quell the very people he'd actually married into. Never mind that the changing climate of the Sahara Desert and its encroachment did not help Blacks. Too many decided to retreat inland, the same way that their ancestors did in other parts of Africa, thus sealing them off from the coastline and any means of trade or commerce.

I have always found it interesting the fact that Modern Day Egyptians, cannot even give basic answers to the very things that are around them, but expect people to believe that they built any of what we see today. I had the fortune of going to school with someone from Somalia, an Afro-Arab, but he would try his damndest to come off as full-blooded Arab. He was extremely shocked when he found out that the Black population of our school, was well aware of events that had been going on there. He ultimately confirmed what we had already known, discussed and looked into. What we found funnier was the complete contempt that we got from our so-called "White teachers" in history... Except the Vietnam Viet, heh-heh-heh. Because he'd already been on the receiving end of American propoganda, so he had no problems being candid and honest with "the rebel Black kids", LOL!

Here is one of the links that I bothered to keep, from a Black Egyptian who eventually was adopted by a Black American family. She doesn't bullshit, so if race related issues aren't your thing, then I suggest you steer clear. Just thought I'd post a disclaimer just to be on the safe side... LATER!
http://poetwomen.50megs.com/about.html

[SlickWilly440]

Willy I've got to tell you man. You've said some dumb things over the years. But that line right there, that shit takes the cake.

Seriously dude, I hope you are joking.

Sorry, I'm afraid not, I'm serious. Well actually, now that I've checked my chatting history, I realize that I mistakenly recalled information in a post. I should have said "A region in northern Africa where genocide against African villages were taking place"; I don't see how I got that confused with what Sadam did.

[mugen]

post
If I'm ever in Philly, remind me to buy you a drink!

[geesehoward4life]

No problem... but I guess... it probably goes without saying that... I don't drink, LOL!

[ryobreak]

Wow you are just so fucking edgy aren't you! My sensibilities, they are offended :gloomy:

Now, how the fuck is Darfur a proxy war?

Edgy? In what sense? If anything I'm detatched.

And yes, Darfur is a proxy war. Who do you think is providing the munitions and cash? :O

[Jetsetlemming]

No problem... but I guess... it probably goes without saying that... I don't drink, LOL!
I'll take it then. http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5854/rubshandstogetherandgriol9.gif

[Beowulf]

Edgy? In what sense? If anything I'm detatched.

And yes, Darfur is a proxy war. Who do you think is providing the munitions and cash? :O
So you laugh at people for caring? If this is the case then I'm afraid you're kind of a dick.

So you have no actual argument for why it's a proxy war? Cause there is no cash and the munitions were provided by the collapse of the USSR and countless mideast ceasefires/disarmaments.

[ryobreak]

So you laugh at people for caring? If this is the case then I'm afraid you're kind of a dick.

So you have no actual argument for why it's a proxy war? Cause there is no cash and the munitions were provided by the collapse of the USSR and countless mideast ceasefires/disarmaments.
No, that is certainly not the case. As with any other educated individuals with philanthropist ideals, I do hope that the world will become a better place:clap: . But then again, looking at how The System currently operates, conflicts cannot be rooted out and there are a whole host of impoverished nations that have little means to develop.

Sudan, much like Georgia, is only one small fragment of very intricate displays of power by Global Superpowers. Here's an example of how sophisticated our modern society has become: you can't just say "Africa is poor. Therefore, we must send them food," because many regions of Africa were self-sufficient, but with the spread of globalism care packages displaced sellers whose products were now being flown in for free, and many Africans now cultivate a myriad of agricultural products at dirt-cheap prices, making developed countries richer and leaving themselves with little progress in the economical heirarchy.:meh:

Sudan is certainly a proxy war, but out of fear of luring pro-China ultranationalists into this debate:liar: (though it seems like OP9 has a dearth of them,) I think that particular aspect of the conflict is better if it's kept off the table. If you really have an interest in furthering your knowledge of Sudan, take a look at the root causes of the conflict:fever: . Oh, and I'm no dick; I certainly don't condone genocide or other inhumane atrocities, but at the same time I'm a realist and have realized that the lack of mutual trust and the slow pace at which developing countries are incorporating less endowed nations into the umbrella of wealth has seriously debilitated the world's ability to establish a peaceful global community. Hope that helps clarify my point:bwitch: , I do apologize if I did not elaborate enough in my prior posts and thus became subject to your scrutiny. :duh:

[anver]

What you need is a smiley intervention. Maybe then you can confront the legion of pro-China ultranationalists haunting this forum.

[Beowulf]

No, that is certainly not the case. As with any other educated individuals with philanthropist ideals, I do hope that the world will become a better place:clap: . But then again, looking at how The System currently operates, conflicts cannot be rooted out and there are a whole host of impoverished nations that have little means to develop.

Sudan, much like Georgia, is only one small fragment of very intricate displays of power by Global Superpowers. Here's an example of how sophisticated our modern society has become: you can't just say "Africa is poor. Therefore, we must send them food," because many regions of Africa were self-sufficient, but with the spread of globalism care packages displaced sellers whose products were now being flown in for free, and many Africans now cultivate a myriad of agricultural products at dirt-cheap prices, making developed countries richer and leaving themselves with little progress in the economical heirarchy.:meh:

Sudan is certainly a proxy war, but out of fear of luring pro-China ultranationalists into this debate:liar: (though it seems like OP9 has a dearth of them,) I think that particular aspect of the conflict is better if it's kept off the table. If you really have an interest in furthering your knowledge of Sudan, take a look at the root causes of the conflict:fever: . Oh, and I'm no dick; I certainly don't condone genocide or other inhumane atrocities, but at the same time I'm a realist and have realized that the lack of mutual trust and the slow pace at which developing countries are incorporating less endowed nations into the umbrella of wealth has seriously debilitated the world's ability to establish a peaceful global community. Hope that helps clarify my point:bwitch: , I do apologize if I did not elaborate enough in my prior posts and thus became subject to your scrutiny. :duh:
What in the fuck are you talking about?

[ryobreak]

What you need is a smiley intervention. Maybe then you can confront the legion of pro-China ultranationalists haunting this forum.
I loled.