US govt spying on US citizens

[blank slate]

Remember how they said that they would only spy on people talking with terrorists? Well, they (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?cl=10118781) lied (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081009-nsa-eavesdropped-on-americans-journalists-in-baghdad.html). Unless the government considers journalists and aid workers to be terrorists now. The worst part is the fact that they are doing it to members of the armed forces risking their lives in the middle east to "protect our freedoms." A shame that their freedoms aren't being protected. To make things worse, it's been proven (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081009-analysis-data-mining-doesnt-work-for-spotting-terrorists.html) that these tactics simply don't work. :bang:

[Swede]

NO WAI

[SlickWilly440]

So basically they were just saying that to deter people from having contact with terrorists. It's like taking your shoes off at the airport. What they are actually doing is supporting the shoe industry by taking statistical data on what brand of shoes flying passengers wear.

[Plekto]

Add another one to the list of signs of Fascism.

Note - It's the one titled "Militarized Police" or "Military is used to spy on its citizens"

[Gorlam]

You're just realizing this now?

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

Yeah, how fucking sad is it that the first thing to go through my head was, "Old news, dude."

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

Well, that just pisses me off to no end.

[h2orowe]

Why the hell are all of you whining? This is our American government we're talking about. It's like getting pissed a friend looked at your internet history and was like "lol you go on a girl's website." as opposed to your neighbor looking in on your porn and going WHAT THE FUCK WHY DO YOU HAVE ASIAN PORN ON THIS SHIT.

This is the freest country in the world and in order to live here we have to give up some of our freedoms. It's a democracy after all. Hard work has got to be put in and sacrifices have to be made.

The only reason you leftists wouldn't want the government spying on you constantly without reason is because you have something to hide.

[puzzo]

It's like getting pissed a friend looked at your internet history and was like "lol you go on a girl's website." as opposed to your neighbor looking in on your porn and going WHAT THE FUCK WHY DO YOU HAVE ASIAN PORN ON THIS SHIT.



Speaking from experience?

[Arctic_Slicer]

Sadly this is old news that surfaced a couple of years ago. What's even more sad is that it took this long for the corporate owned media to cover it.

[blank slate]

I was already aware that this was going on. But this is the first time that someone from within the NSA has admitted this, plus this is the first time this has gotten coverage on a big news broadcast like ABC and made it to the front page of Yahoo!

[Candyvan Stan]

Why the hell are all of you whining? This is our American government we're talking about. It's like getting pissed a friend looked at your internet history and was like "lol you go on a girl's website." as opposed to your neighbor looking in on your porn and going WHAT THE FUCK WHY DO YOU HAVE ASIAN PORN ON THIS SHIT.

This is the freest country in the world and in order to live here we have to give up some of our freedoms. It's a democracy after all. Hard work has got to be put in and sacrifices have to be made.

The only reason you leftists wouldn't want the government spying on you constantly without reason is because you have something to hide.


I was getting ready to reply, and then I realised it was written by you, Joey. Kudos to you. I smiled. :)

[Beowulf]

I AM SHOCKED AND APPALLED SIR!

[Vincent]

This is the freest country in the world and in order to live here we have to give up some of our freedoms. It's a democracy after all. Hard work has got to be put in and sacrifices have to be made.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin said that, gtfo you ignorant fool.

[h2orowe]

Ha. Ha. He. Ho. Ho.

[Plekto]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin said that, gtfo you ignorant fool.

You beat me to it :)

*****
Originally Posted by h2orowe
This is the freest country in the world and in order to live here we have to give up some of our freedoms. It's a democracy after all. Hard work has got to be put in and sacrifices have to be made.
*****

This actually is almost word for word what fascists and dictators say to motivate the people into doing their bidding.

"In order to (insert cause) we have to give up some of our freedoms. (insert general talking point about the nation or people) Hard work has got to be put in and sacrifices have to be made."

Seriously. Hitler and Mao and Stalin all made virtually identical statements at one time or another.

We're really only free as long as we question the status quo and never let up on our leaders.

[geesehoward4life]

It's actually SUPER OLD.

My sworn-brother shipped out to Iraq at the start of the War with Iraq, you know, the whole Iraqi Freedom thing? Why am I thinking of Mongrol from Justice League "Long Live, DEMOCRACY!" "WAR WORLD! WAR WORLD! WAR WORLD!" LOL!

My stupidity aside, we were on the phone and he was still in Germany at the time and he asked what I thought and I reminded him that "This was why I opted NOT to join up, when we were seniors in high school. Once the Soviets fell? Pfft, no military for me, because now, greedy politicians will be calling the shots and lord knows what mess they'll dream and scheme up and once you're IN, then you're IN!" So he wasn't too keen on that, mind you he kept re-upping and whatnot, which I told him to quit while he was behind, but anyway. I told him flatout "You should be going back to Kuwait first, right? Then into Iraq?" "Uh-huh." "Then you'll get your answer there. If you land in Kuwait and see tons of pipeline, then my cynicism is once again CORRECT and you can jam your Final Justice up yer ass, buddy, LOL! Cause we're there for the oil, the people'll are just incidental objects in the way. It won't work, but we have an asshole for a president, so? He's spoiled and has yet to be held accountable for things he's done in his life so, stay low and keep firin. You're short, so? Just keep your helmet on!"

Sure enough, he called me from Kuwait and he IMMEDIATELY made it clear "'Member what we talked about in Germany?"
"Yep."
"Well, you were right."
But after 15 years of knowing somebody, especially going through the crap that we went through, it was clear he couldn't talk at all about what he was seeing and we shifted over to talking the way we used to in high school, which was just creepy. He made it crystal clear that he couldn't talk and that the lines were heavily monitored for the soldiers who were communicating BACK towards the States and into friendly territory. I talked to his wife later on and she was freaking out because she would start yappin on the phone when he would call her about things she shouldn't and he would keep cutting her off, she's German and couldn't understand why American soldiers were being so heavily monitored, even when calling family back on base, and I told her "You don't need to be American to figure out when somebody is doing something they feel they need to hide."

Bottom line, he made it crystal clear that they kept press far away from the pipelines and everything else that was going on over there. Where it was clear to see that they didn't even bring 1/10th of the supplies necessary to restore order to Iraq once it fell. I don't even bother to talk to him when he's in or near Iraq now, because they monitor everything from emails to phone calls. LONNNG LIVE DEMOCRACY! And thanks to all of the people who voted for Bush! LOL! This, is YOUR EMPEROR! The Clown Prince of Comedy! The King of Carjackers! The Sultan of Treason, DUBYA! The man has single-handedly destroyed the country along with his co-conspirators, Republicans and Democrats... Yay, two-party system! Oh, and has anyone heard about what actually happened to the Lehman Brothers office in London! LOL! News over here isn't reporting it... yet....

[Kaji]

This seriously isn't anything new. Letters from soldiers back home even as far back as World War I were routinely opened, censored if necessary, and then sent the rest of the way. While I agree as much as the next person that it's reprehensible to be sharing pillow talk calls around the office for entertainment's sake, in the end it's in the best interests of the operation to ensure that sensitive information (e.g. troop deployments, where people are moving to, etc.) is controlled. It's hard to fight a war effectively and reduce casualties when our strategy for the next 3 moves is right on the front page of CNN.com because things hit the grapevine and eventually became public knowledge. Likewise, setting specific timetables for being out of Iraq and making them public is an abysmal idea, as it just means that the people we're fighting will just mark the date on their calendars so that they know when to move back in, this time unopposed. Hell, we still maintain bases in Germany, Japan, and Korea more than 50 years after the fact.

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

You're pretty far down the rabbit hole aren't you, Kaji.

[Beowulf]

This seriously isn't anything new. Letters from soldiers back home even as far back as World War I were routinely opened, censored if necessary, and then sent the rest of the way. While I agree as much as the next person that it's reprehensible to be sharing pillow talk calls around the office for entertainment's sake, in the end it's in the best interests of the operation to ensure that sensitive information (e.g. troop deployments, where people are moving to, etc.) is controlled. It's hard to fight a war effectively and reduce casualties when our strategy for the next 3 moves is right on the front page of CNN.com because things hit the grapevine and eventually became public knowledge. Likewise, setting specific timetables for being out of Iraq and making them public is an abysmal idea, as it just means that the people we're fighting will just mark the date on their calendars so that they know when to move back in, this time unopposed. Hell, we still maintain bases in Germany, Japan, and Korea more than 50 years after the fact.
How do you do this? How?

[japanat]

Hell, we still maintain bases in Germany, Japan, and Korea more than 50 years after the fact.And I suppose you think we do so in order to keep Germany and Japan in line? And we didn't invade Korea, we were invited.

[Kaji]

Care to give a timetable for getting out of any of the above, then? While I'm sure we can agree that Japan and Germany won't fall apart should we pull out of them, I have yet to hear of a time by which we intend to pull out of them. In that light, why on earth should we expect it of a place that is such that it'll collapse almost instantly the moment we pull out?

[anver]

Care to give a timetable for getting out of any of the above, then? While I'm sure we can agree that Japan and Germany won't fall apart should we pull out of them, I have yet to hear of a time by which we intend to pull out of them. In that light, why on earth should we expect it of a place that is such that it'll collapse almost instantly the moment we pull out?
The war costs millions per day, not all that fortunate if you've got "the biggest crisis since the Depression" at home; something like two thirds of the populace are against the way since learning that just about everything that was used to justify the war was bullshit; it seems that for every step forward there's a step back in another area (successful police actions - collateral damage, democratic elections - more sectarian violence); and probably several other factors I forget.

Add all that up and you've got a great bloody mess. Seems similar to the war in Vietnam to me. Which is why "it'll collapse almost instantly the moment we pull out" sounds rather inconsequential to me.

[stsparky]

Vietnam got better once we left and the country got reconciled.

[Plekto]

The reason is actually pretty simple. The people don't really feel like fighting or want to. It's always their asshat leaders who do. Remove them from the picture (or in our case, just go home) and it'll sort itself out in a few years.