I just came, and here's why you should too

[Civilization Phrase III]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/27/ntt-docomos-906i-and-706i-handsets-answer-whos-your-daddy/

Aiaiaiai! I'm so jealous of those of you still in Japan w/ the money, want, and will to buy these things!

God, my Sidekick 3 looks like a piece of shit in comparison.

[MNJetter]

Hey, no fair. Mine's a 703iμ -- probably the immediate precurser to the 706 -- and my phone can't do half of those things.

It looks awesome, though.

[mikem]

Aiaiaiai! I'm so jealous of those of you still in Japan w/ the money, want, and will to buy these things!


Then you realized that you have to be fluent in Japanese to use most of these features.

MNJetter>
I got a new phone recently, but my 2 year old one had 90% of the features listed. Are you sure yours doesn't? GPS, TV, iD, etc. have been standard on the high end models for a while now.

[hanacker]

If it has voice to text in English, surely you can change it to an English interface, no?

[ミュー]

I have a P905i, which actually does have all of the features of the 906i series. It cost a ridiculous amount of money, but I have to say that DoCoMo phones put all competition to shame. At least, that's what I say when I'm paying like 10,000 a month...

[RoxFontaine]

^ They do not. Most phones on the Japanese market today are the same.

The AU Design project is usually interesting and original. Willcom's PDA phones are always stunning. Other than that, the phone bore me to fucking death. You wanna see a bad ass phone, check out the Willcom D4.

[Plekto]

So does it do spoken Japanese to English text?

I like the TV tuner as well... I so want a phone what does that.

[Swede]

But will it blend? :watson:

[Urameshi YuSooKey]

But will it blend? :watson:
Docomo smoke....don't breathe it.

[Swede]

Docomo smoke....don't breathe it.
:clap:

[Pierrot le Fou]

If it has voice to text in English, surely you can change it to an English interface, no?
Yes, but you have to speak in katakana to use that feature.

Speak: "Let's go get loaded and fuck up some smaht chicks."
Test: "??? go ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????"

Speak: "Retsu go getto rodeddo ando fakku appu samu sumahto chikkusu"
Test: "Let's go get loaded and fuck up some smart chicks."

Japanese phones are expensive, have the world's worst user interfaces, and the features aren't even as cool as they should be.

[Juvenyle]

Almost all of those phones looked the same except for the color. If I wanted to spend more money on a different design, I would just buy a new faceplate.

[mikem]

If it has voice to text in English, surely you can change it to an English interface, no?

My previous phone had the base UI switchable to English. My current phone, which is just 4 models newer but otherwise the same, doesn't even have that option anymore.

Even on the old phone all of the really cool features were special applications that have only Japanese interfaces. I learned a lot of important Japanese from trying to use my phone too.

The UI on my Casio phones are the best interface I've ever seen/used on any phone. I can't even recall one phone in the US that had a good interface ... good UI on phones certainly isn't some kind of world standard.

[RoxFontaine]

Almost all of those phones looked the same except for the color. If I wanted to spend more money on a different design, I would just buy a new faceplate.

They are the same. Features are the same too.

[Digital Masta]

The UI on my Casio phones are the best interface I've ever seen/used on any phone. I can't even recall one phone in the US that had a good interface ... good UI on phones certainly isn't some kind of world standard.


Well you have been out of the loop for quite some time now, have you not?

[japanat]

My previous phone had the base UI switchable to English. My current phone, which is just 4 models newer but otherwise the same, doesn't even have that option anymore.My AU phone easily switches from Japanese menus to English. All cellphones made by Sony or Sanyo have this feature, as do some of the other makers. Remember, Docomo or other carriers don't actually make the phones.

[mikem]

My AU phone easily switches from Japanese menus to English.

Examples of AU features that you cannot get in English:
* FM Radio
* Oneseg TV
* Navi-walk
* AU Sports
* LISMO

That's the two second list off the top of my head. Most of the stuff they advertise heavily has a Japanese only interface.

Well you have been out of the loop for quite some time now, have you not?

It's been almost a year since I got back and I haven't personally used an iPhone yet. However my cousin is really involved with the cell phone industry. He's basically a handset otaku. When I was showing him the features of my 1-year old phone he was like, "Yeah, we don't have anything like that yet. In fact our data services can't handle most of that right now and even when they can the cost of data plans will be too expensive for mass adoption."

It is really expensive for service providers to build really good networks in such a huge country. Also the demand for such services generally isn't there. This also effects what kind of handsets are popular and how much people are willing to pay for them.

For example a new top of the line Docomo phone can easily run you $500US with two-year contract. That's not for a smart phone either. Just a regular clam-shell with all the bells and whistles. Most American consumers won't even look at a phone that isn't free ... yet in Japan Docomo is the #1 company precisely because they offer high-end phones.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Japan is stuck with an outdated business model and will end up getting screwed as soon as US technology adapts the 3G standard and/or the next big thing comes along. Japan has a service-based system which means you are forced to sign a contract and pay big money to use a phone which is subsidized by the cost of the plan. This is dumb for consumers who do not need to bells and whistles of the latest phone and who want cheap/flexible service plans (or pay-as-you-go).

People use these features because they need to have a phone anyway, and getting the latest does not cost them that much in the long run. That's slowly changing as they start making their business model reflect the cost of the phone (while still retaining this silly service system).

When the iPhone gets here, I'll switch to whatever carrier has it, and then I'll be done. I don't need TV, lismo or FM Radio. Navi is nice (for train schedules) but simple net access works as well. The features are not worth the extra cost that I pay for a contract over the US.

[mikem]

^ Huh? The US started the long service contract thing. It wasn't until MNP that the Japanese bumped up the penalties for breaking your contract. When I signed my first AU contract it was 2,000yen to break it. My American one 3 years before I moved to Japan ... $150!

What cell phone service provider doesn't use the contract business model? Pre-paid certainly doesn't target the bulk of the market.

[Pierrot le Fou]

In the US, you buy your phone, then you sign up for the plan. Many phones can be used for several providers. In Japan, that isn't the case.

[Black Dog]

That sucks!

[羽之助]

What I like about Japanese phones is that so many of them are flip-phones. I have a Nokia slider right now and I still miss my old clamshell.

My Japanese phone was better for GPS and watching TV; my Nokia is better for music and Internet.

[ミュー]

In the US, you buy your phone, then you sign up for the plan. Many phones can be used for several providers. In Japan, that isn't the case.
Uh, bullshit. It is possible to buy phones without a contract, but most people buy phones through a carrier and those phones are SIM locked to that carrier.

The idea of having cheaper phones and expensive plans allowed everyone to buy a cutting edge phone every year. The new system is like the US, and I hate it. Fuck penalty fees!

[RoxFontaine]

^ Word. I prefer the Japanese system over the US one. Especially since carriers like Willcom and Softbank are cutting prices for basic plans lower and lower.

I think phones are way more expensive here in the US than in Japan. I don't know much about Docomo as I've NEVER used their service, so maybe you guys are right about their handset prices. I personally have never seen a handset cost that much. I paid 400 for my Zero 3 but that's a PDA phone that was unmatched on the market at the time AND it came with a back up phone (TT - Tiny Talk). From what I've seen, on average, phones run about 120-200 with a new number.

Here in the US, everything seems to be 250+. The phones that I would want to use are all 350+ plus. It's really ridiculous considering the slow ass data rate on most of them and lack of features as compared to Japan.

Note: Fucking Willcom FINALLY decided to release a new Zero 3......when I'm out of the country. Bastards. It looks sexy as all hell too.

[Digital Masta]

US phones get cheaper come recontracting time.

[RoxFontaine]

^ Still doesn't compare. In the US: Wait 2 years, decide to stick with the same company and then get a price break on a phone. In Japan: Wait 2 months and the phone will be a fraction of the original price or free.

[rameek]

I have a P905i, which actually does have all of the features of the 906i series. It cost a ridiculous amount of money, but I have to say that DoCoMo phones put all competition to shame. At least, that's what I say when I'm paying like 10,000 a month...
I have the SH905i still dont know what the thing can do honestly... I wouldnt recommend this model to anyone the keypad and other touch features are to smooth..

[Pierrot le Fou]

Apparently I wasn't clear.

The US has absurdly cheap service in comparison to Japan, at the price of having more expensive phones. By making the service independent from phones in most cases, customers can decide the service based on what they want, rather than which phone they have access to with that plan.

In Japan, the phones are absurdly expensive, but because they have always been included as part of the package with the plan, Japanese consumers do not directly pay for the phone, paying instead in higher plans, and huge penalties for contract cancellation.

As a result, there are absurdly expensive plans out there to subsidize the phones, as well as ridiculous waste in getting the newest cellphone every couple years because you never have to pay the 'real' cost of the phone out of pocket.

It's silly.

I'd much rather pay $350 up-front for the phone followed by a monthly bill that is $30 cheaper. That pays for the phone over a year, and long-term results in massive savings than paying nothing for the phone and the extra $30 every month.

[Plekto]

Or you can buy a used phone and drop your simm in it in the U.S. - for $50?

What's a used Razor go for? It's not new, but it's not a bad phone, either...

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/697801100.html
Actually, $25. Buy a plan and enjoy. Some things we do get cheaper here
than anyplace else in the world.(though I do wish some of the new techno
toys were available to buy over here)

[erbiumfiber]

I'd much rather pay $350 up-front for the phone followed by a monthly bill that is $30 cheaper. That pays for the phone over a year, and long-term results in massive savings than paying nothing for the phone and the extra $30 every month.

That.

Except I just want a phone that can make a call from point A to point B- I don't care about the camera, messaging, mp-3, etc. So I would be the one buying the $60 el cheapo model.

I already have the MOST basic plan at about 3000 yen a month or so (OK, maybe there's more basic out there, but I needed one that came with this phone model that has lots of English... and I didn't want to spend a lot of time on selection as I had a coworker translating for me and didn't want to waste his time...). Even so, I still don't use all my minutes...or yen or whatever allowance I get per month...

[mikem]

Apparently I wasn't clear.


PLF none of what you have said about the US system is true. For one thing you can't switch a particular phone to another provider because they all all use different frequencies and technology.

Also phones in the US are absurdly expensive just like in Japan. However the companies subsidize them to make them cost even less. (They do the same thing in Japan, but the phones are even more expensive due to extra technology they throw in them. I guess the 1yen phones are probably around the same manufacturer price as a US free phone.)

My phone bill in Japan has always been much cheaper than mine in America. The data plans alone are way cheaper. The biggest thing I lose in Japan in the "free nights and weekend" calling so I end up texting more. People don't really answer their phones here anyway so it kind of all works out.

I don't particularly like either system, but the US cell phone carriers are even more corrupt and evil than the Japanese ones. They all make Docomo look like a nice friendly company!

Maybe you were thinking of the European system? You certainly described what they have had for a while. (All standardizing on GSM for example ...) That is just a benefit of government interference though. I personally prefer not to pay 60% tax ...

[ミュー]

I think the thing that really makes Japanese phones satisfy me is the greatness of predictive entry. The US/EU phones' T9 or whatever is useless for me, but these days my phone usually knows what I'm going to say before I do >_>

I pay maybe 33% more here than in the US, but I feel much less cheated

With my US phone, it makes phone calls and looks cool. Honestly, I used an old JP Vodafone model because I hate the tiny little bullshit phones.

With my Japanese phone
- need to call someone
- need to mail someone (god I love real email addresses)
- need to send myself/someone else a picture/video
- check train
- check gmail
- check mixi
- find locations (GPS appli)
- use navi to get places
- find nearby conbini, decent restaurant
- check weather, news etc.
- find cheaper item prices
- buy stuff
- check my bank
- look at normal PC sites (OP9 even loads, but I don't like to keypad English)

If I was without my phone for a week, it would honestly be a serious problem for me. The machines have already taken over x_x

[RoxFontaine]

^ You can switch between providers if you buy an unlocked phone. Many people are buying unlocked iPhones here in the US. They also buy more stylish unlocked phones from the UK for use here in the US. You're mostly right though.

I do not agree that phones are more expensive in Japan. When you compare cost/performance of phones (even with the "hidden" costs in Japan), you pay a LOT more for much less here in the US. Especially considering the speed of most of the networks here.

In addition, I used Willcom's service. My base plan was 2,980 yen a month (2,200 for family members) and I paid 3,980 yen for unlimited data. My bill NEVER broke 10,000 yen even when I called the US frequently. Their rates to the US were like 30 yen/min. or something.

[japanat]

Guess I'm just a cheap bastard. My cell is for Cmail with my wife, and email with a few friends, plus pics and vids which I download directly into my PC. I don't use any of the other services (my phone has navi, internet, radio, int'l usage, etc), preferring to use the PC for that. When I head Stateside, I go to WalMart or Target and get a cheap disposable phone, since even with buying a new handset it's still cheaper than paying AUs int'l rates.

I like to look at all the bells and whistles the phones have, but can still get a much better deal with YBBPhone or other comparable services, plus ￥3/min calls to the US.

But Mr Fountaine's setup sounds like a pretty cheap deal. Even I'd go for that, if my wife weren't locked into AU (she likes the free Cmail and got us a pretty good family plan).