Motorcycle or Scooter?

[stsparky]

I've a friend who can't afford a car.

I like the idea of his scootering around town and not mooching rides off of me.

Any pluses or minuses on each?

[StormShadow]

Motorcycles have the bad-ass factor. I don't care how fast your scooter can go or how many skulls you've had painted onto it; it just cannot be compared to a motorcycle.

[RoxFontaine]

It depends on his budget. If he can't afford a car, he probably can't afford a motorcycle either. Not a good one anyway.

If he just needs an automobile to get around to handle local things, then scooter all the way. Cheap and efficient.

Getting a motorcycle, he'd have to consider maintenance and gear just as much as the bike.

[whispering]

Scooter -> gets you from A to B.
Motorcycle -> penis enlargment

[Trump]

Riding either is dangerous. Riding a motorcycle at least gives you the power to escape a situation if you need to.

Oh, and living in Florida, its either too hot or raining to ride them anyway...

Oh yeah, and scooters just look funny.

[jariten]

You can get in a lot less trouble on a stock 50cc scooter.

[Minibeefcake]

If just riding around very locally, scooter is probably the way to go.

If he has any need to get on the freeway... motorcycle it is.

Get a smaller 250cc bike if he's short on money. it's good enough to ride on the freeway without too much worry. I got mine brand new from dealership for a little less than $3500 out the door delivered to my house.

There are large scooters that's freeway worthy but I trust my 250cc bike than a large scooter...

[Plekto]

Tell him to work more. Less Playstation and T.V.

I once managed to get a working car for $500 and used that for a year. If he erally wants to drive, well, he'll find a way to do it.

[Masa the Masta]

"You will never be cool...ON A SCOOTER." - Az

'nuff said. (I think that's what he said anyway)

[Plekto]

Plus, most states have two licenses. If you get a moped license, you can't ride a motorcycle. It's rightfully seen as a wuss license.

[stsparky]

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[akitaka]

^nice price-point. I've seen some 250cc scooters go for that price, better mileage, but probably less practical if your buddy is a long-distance driver.

About looking "cool" on a scooter: This depends on build and style, both of the scooter and your audience ;-) I'll probably get one a few years from now (am eyeing a 150cc with a killer 70+ mpg for a bit less than a grand), if I choose to stay in Oregon, unless I can get a nice used honda/toyota for a good price (for the sake of carpool/carryng some loads).

If this is Japan, scooters are far more economical and less bothersome in terms of noise. Roads aren't wide and require negotiating, and I feel that a bike's power would be undermined by these conditions, alone.

In Cali you need a CARB certified scooter which costs as much as a new bike; with that said, the latter's more effective as highway-powerful scooters with certifications cost as much or more than bikes (with a smidgen more mpg). Maintenance is another deal, but if your buddy wants either, it's very much suggestible to know how to fix his own deals even if the tools my cost a bit.

A new helmet will run him some cash as well, but overall, should be able to get away with what he needs on a bike for 3,000ish, or less than half with a 50-150cc scooter. Note that insurance on the former is only what...$160 a year?

[ミュー]

I've got a good condition 1989 Cadillac Coupe Deville in Orange, CA that I'd sell for $1350. It gets about 15-20 MPG, but to be honest paying the gas to drive a dependable car is better than the service expenses on a run-down economy car. Personally, riding a scooter in LA sounds like a death note.

[stsparky]

Mew? I do know what you mean. First serious car was a 1970 Coupe De Ville.

I don't think he's ever had a car in his life. A scooter might have let him drive without a license.

[japanat]

Just check out the classifieds and get a used bike for the first purchase (since the odds are good that he'll lay it down at least once anyways).

I got a used, near-new KZ440 belt-drive G1 in college for $1300. The Yamaha FZ250 Fazer I ride now, a very large-framed 250 with a throaty sound, was ￥80,000. The original owner laid it down, was afraid to ride again, and I got a steal.

Oh, and I can ride the shoulder as easily as any of the scooters, but have much more power to get out of dangerous situations than any scooter.

[ellie]

Mew? I do know what you mean. First serious car was a 1970 Coupe De Ville.

I don't think he's ever had a car in his life. A scooter might have let him drive without a license.

My first car was a Cadillac too! A 1995 sedan de Ville.

I'm not sure about California laws since I have an NC license (for the time being anyway but ugh I guess this summer I'll have to take the CA driving test to get my license out there), but in NC you don't need a license to drive a scooter. Everyone who gets a DUI here immediately goes to buy a scooter, since that's the only way to get around sans-license in much of the state, since public transit is only available in the big cities, and there is a lot of backroad country in NC.

If he wants it immediately, the scooter would probably ail much more hassle motorcycle would probably entail much more hassle, as he ld probably entail much more hassle, as he would probably have to get a license, get a license plate, etc etc etc. Plus more costly overall, I think.

[akitaka]

Mew? I do know what you mean. First serious car was a 1970 Coupe De Ville.

I don't think he's ever had a car in his life. A scooter might have let him drive without a license.
Don't they require at least a driver's license to operate? In Cali, you also need a certification for the vehicle. I don't know about mid/upper regions but experience tells me that so-cal's traffic is pretty scary. With that considered it'd be a pretty bad idea to ride on a highway even if you had a 250cc model (which, again, costs over 2k new with less power than a bike could offer).

[mochyan]

Socal's driving is wayy more congested, faster and scarier than Norcal.

My bro suggests the scooter. He's also been wanting to get one to go to work and such.

[Fuiru]

If its just around town and he's not inclined on going fast or long distances then a scooter is a far better choice than a motorbike (my friends will kill me for saying that).

Scooter:
+ Easier to maneuver
+ Compact, easy to filter through traffic
+ STORAGE SPACE!
- Wind blast at anything over 80km/h
- Your not in Europe so most people may question your sexuality

Motorbike:
+ Power, speed. Not for the novelty factor but to avoid idiots who don't watch their blind spots on highways. Its always good to be able to pull away. (Spoken from experience)
+ Ability to ride 2-Up comfortably. Smaller scooters generally suffer in this department.
+ So. Much. Fun.
- Heavier and less nimble compared to a scooter
- Theres no in-built storage

Both are dangerous (when compared to cars) so he should really take that into consideration, especially city traffic. Another thing he should consider is gear. A decent budget helmet will cost around $200USD, not to mention any other protective gear he may want to get (its a good idea to get what you can).

With the bike, depends on what you get, cruiser types that you gave as an example are piss easy to maneuver, in my opinion more comfortable to ride than a scooter (you don't have that 'knees together, I'm a pansy' riding position) and don't give you cramps in the wrists or arms during long rides that sport bikes can give. Filtering through stationary traffic is a god send with both bikes and scooters.

Motorbikes you can generally get real cheap. I bought my GSX250 off a mate for $2000AUD. You can probably pick up a scoot for a similar if not cheaper price.

Does he want to buy brand new? or used?

Practicality aside :D Motorbikes win in the fun department. Hands down.
Unless you have one of these bad boys.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Fuiru/g2.jpg
:karate:

[mawande]

This always makes me think of the pictures of the guy who was ripped in half. The pictures so many people argued about whether or not they were real.

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

I'd say that picture is real. Just that he isn't moving.

[Riinuka]

Yeah, his jacket folds aren't reacting the way they should be for him to be moving against wind..

[akitaka]

This always makes me think of the pictures of the guy who was ripped in half. The pictures so many people argued about whether or not they were real.
A friend of mine saw a biker get decapitated, getting hit dead-on (at a similar angle of that turning fellow) after skidding into the intersection. Seeing as the area had a 40 mph speeding limit, there's little to say that 50+ could rip someone in half.

But we're talking about the *fun* aspects of the bike. Not to mention expensive; the suits needed to ride like that cost a pretty penny. Otherwise, you're upright most of the time.

Fuiru: Isn't that the new model made by the company that manufactures the Vespas? Said to have the best MPG, yet...a hybrid o_o

[Fuiru]

Of course its dangerous! But that doesn't stop me from riding =)
I can go on a rant about how many close calls and idiots I've encountered on the road, but I won't, because the bottom line is its your CHOICE to ride or not. As long as you know what the consequences can be and try to take what you can into your own control then thats pretty much all there is to it.

I ride not just because its my only means of personal powered transport, but most of all, it reminds me how too feel alive. I never need drugs as long as I have a bike.

But anyways =)

Gear: Most people will suggest buying leather jacket and pants. Yes, that is the best form of protection you can have for your body, as most come with impact absorbing foams and plastics.

But! Leather gets VERY hot. If your in a highly congested traffic situation, sitting in leather, during the middle of summer, then expect to sweat. The heat of exhaust fumes, sunlight, and leather is a terrible combination, so consider that.

Another thing, perforated, breathable leather is more expensive and generally more track focused. You can get away with a textile jacket, but make sure its for motorcycle riding. They come with the armor you need to stay alive and are highly abrasion resistant. Same goes for pants, gloves and boots if you want to get them.

If he decides on buying a scooter, then I highly suggest a full-face helmet. Most scooter riders ride around with 3/4 or 1/2 faced and it just scares the sh*t out of me. I can only imagine someone grabbing the front brake way too hard, launching themselves forward and landing jaw first. You can buy flip faced helmets that convert from full to half faced. Super convenient. Nolan and Shoei are great brands and highly recommended.


akitaka: yup, thats the company that makes Vespas. That particular scoot is the Piaggio MP3. 3 wheeled leaning scooter madness! No idea about the mileage on that thing but I can imagine the 125cc and 250cc variants to do pretty well, although I'm not sure how well compared to 2 wheeled scooters as weight and the friction of that 3rd wheel might hinder it in that department.

[stsparky]

There's a budget to consider as well.

What do people think of these:
1 (http://www.motorxtremes.com/scooters/zip-125/index.html)
Zip 125
http://www.motorxtremes.com/img/zip125/zip-125-main.png
2 (http://www.motorxtremes.com/scooters/sport-125/index.html)
Sport 125
http://www.motorxtremes.com/img/sport125/sport125.jpg
They come in under $1000 ...

[Plekto]

There was a review a couple of years back at beginnerbikes.com(now dead - real shame, too) about the abrasion resistance properties of various materials.

Ballistic Nylon came in second only after Kevlar. Leather was well down the list with the rest of them. There's a reason pros don't wear leather. Plus, nylon and gore-tex are far less hot and heavy.

- California doesn't require any inspection other than for smog. Obvious problems like missing lights and such are all taken care of by the police writing fix-it-tickets.

- California also has tow licenses. Same exact test. But Moped gets you... yep, you can't ride a motorcycle with it. Go figure.

The best bike, though, if you are in Japan or most of the rest of the world is the Honda CRB150RR. It's a baby version of their 600RR. Roughly the same performance as a Ninja 250, but it's a much better bike. Better fuel economy, better looks, less cost...

Here in the U.S., though, you're stuck with a Ninja250 as a minimum, since we get 20 year old technology in our lower end bikes, which means there's very little between 20-25hp and 100hp models. If you want a cruiser, though, just get a couple of year old Virago 535 or a Suzuki Savage/S40. Both are bulletproof commuters and dead-simple to ride, yet will absolutely keep up with traffic and then some.

No-name scooters... just say no.

[jariten]

KLR 250
http://home.earthlink.net/~klr250informationexchange/images/usaklr4.jpg

Had one in college...it's like the mini-SUV of road bikes. Goes anywhere, comfortable at 75mph, gets 55-60 mpg, is fine 2up around town, plus you can do light trails and things for fun.

I used to hop the curb at my apartment and park it on the porch. Convinient. You should be able to pickup a decent used one for less than 1500. They made them for many many years.

[Riinuka]

I've got a Fulmer full-face helmet... I can't stand it when I see people riding around with the partial crap. It's like wearing half a bikini to the beach - just doesn't cut it..

[Fuiru]

There was a review a couple of years back at beginnerbikes.com(now dead - real shame, too) about the abrasion resistance properties of various materials.

Ballistic Nylon came in second only after Kevlar. Leather was well down the list with the rest of them. There's a reason pros don't wear leather. Plus, nylon and gore-tex are far less hot and heavy.

- California doesn't require any inspection other than for smog. Obvious problems like missing lights and such are all taken care of by the police writing fix-it-tickets.

- California also has tow licenses. Same exact test. But Moped gets you... yep, you can't ride a motorcycle with it. Go figure.

The best bike, though, if you are in Japan or most of the rest of the world is the Honda CRB150RR. It's a baby version of their 600RR. Roughly the same performance as a Ninja 250, but it's a much better bike. Better fuel economy, better looks, less cost...

Here in the U.S., though, you're stuck with a Ninja250 as a minimum, since we get 20 year old technology in our lower end bikes, which means there's very little between 20-25hp and 100hp models. If you want a cruiser, though, just get a couple of year old Virago 535 or a Suzuki Savage/S40. Both are bulletproof commuters and dead-simple to ride, yet will absolutely keep up with traffic and then some.

No-name scooters... just say no.

I'm going to have to disagree. The high end race suits, the stuff moto gp and world suberbike riders are wearing, are all made of leather, be it cow hide or kangaroo. Almost all race tracks won't even let you participate in track days unless you have a minimum of a leather jacket with armor, leather pants which zip to the jacket and leather gloves (we sure love our leather). Race suits and jackets now-a-days are coming with kevlar stretch panel in the under arm, inner elbow, groin and inner knee areas. Not for their abrasion resistance, but for their ability to stretch and aid in mobility.

In a high speed crash, the materials on a textile jacket are likely to melt together due to the friction. Most of of the time, the part that will fail a leather jacket is its stitching. This is how you differentiate the budget stuff from the top shelf stuff.

Leather, however, is mostly sport focused and can be uncomfortable if your just commuting along, they're designed for high speed crashes. If your doing city riding, then textile would be the better choice. Its more comfortable, easier to maintain, cheaper, but will still protect you when something happens. Its still good stuff.


Out of those two scooters, I would choose neither :P . But the sport one looks to be the better option. It a 5-speed manual and it has disc brakes. The other has drum brakes and is semi-auto. If he doesn't mind shifting the sport is the way to go. I'm not sure on the gearing of scooters but I don't think you'd go past 2nd gear in the city.

If I were him I'd pick up something second hand. You'll generally find something better thats within your budget.

[Plekto]

Kevlar and Ballistic Nylon isn't the same as "synthetic" - and it's about as cumbersome as leather - maybe moreso, since it doesn't tend to get softer as it ages/conform to your body as well. But leather actually wasn't the best that you can buy if you have the money, according to the tests. The synthetic suits offer better protection. But they are very expensive compared to a leather riding jacket and pants.

Aerostitch makes very good ones.

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/crash_padding-pt1.htm
A very good article about crash protection.

[Seth619]

KLR 250
http://home.earthlink.net/~klr250informationexchange/images/usaklr4.jpg

Had one in college...it's like the mini-SUV of road bikes. Goes anywhere, comfortable at 75mph, gets 55-60 mpg, is fine 2up around town, plus you can do light trails and things for fun.

I used to hop the curb at my apartment and park it on the porch. Convinient. You should be able to pickup a decent used one for less than 1500. They made them for many many years.

I'm having a hard time finding this bike around my area. Looks like I'll have to look for it on the net and have it ship to me.

So far only 2 listing on ebay motors.

Any other site?

[silentplummet]

Here's me with my scooter which I use to scoot around Honolulu.

http://b.imagehost.org/0590/moped1.jpg

Am I ever going to look cool on a scooter? Not really.

The long and short of scooters, as far as I understand it, is that they will get you from here to there safely, provided excellent driving conditions and perfect roads.

As soon as the roads get dicey, though, you're out of luck. 50cc doesn't give you much power to climb hills or accelerate out of dangerous situations. Also, the wheels aren't big enough, nor the vehicle heavy enough, to really handle rough patches in the road without careful navigation.

On the other hand, 60-100 mpg, convenience, and not having to worry about a license are all very nice.

I'm thinking about selling this and moving up to an entry level kawasaki or honda when I go back to Japan.

[jariten]

I'm having a hard time finding this bike around my area. Looks like I'll have to look for it on the net and have it ship to me.

So far only 2 listing on ebay motors.

Any other site?

Cycletrader has a lot of bikes. Also for a bit more you can get suzuki drz400 or kawi klx250 which are both improvements on the genre.

Just search craigslist for "Dual sport" and there should be quite a few in the same category.

[haterllnation]

http://b.imagehost.org/0590/moped1.jpg

Am I ever going to look cool on a scooter? Not really.


I'd say you are an exception just because you remind me of G.O.B. Bluth from Arrested Development in that shot. You've just replaced a segway with a scooter.

[akitaka]

As soon as the roads get dicey, though, you're out of luck. 50cc doesn't give you much power to climb hills or accelerate out of dangerous situations. Also, the wheels aren't big enough, nor the vehicle heavy enough, to really handle rough patches in the road without careful navigation..

Hmm...this is exactly why I considered a 150cc 4-stroke, but am still unsure of the raw power/acceleration for situations, as you noted. Hawaii's like that, at least in my experience at one point driving around Maui. Arizona driving style totally conflicted with all those hills and turns -_-

The dual-sport type bikes that jariten mentioned looks much more comfortable to ride (and not to mention less heavy) than a street bike. I'll keep that in consideration, as well.

[Plekto]

150cc with carbs won't out-accelerate a Civic. Don't worry about it having too little speed, though, since most can get up to 80+mph quite easily. Oh - 150CC is the bare minimum to legally be on the highway. Not 250cc as most people believe. But it better be a fuel-injected rocket like that Honda CBR150RR if you don't want to get run over...

[Clear.tranquil]

I used to drive a motorcycle, but stopped after three accidents. Even if you are the most careful driver, it doesnt mean others are.