Using Net Speak and Text Speak in homework and other mediums

[PopCulturePooka]

Whats everyones options regarding students using net speak and txt speak for Assignments, essays, homework etc or when e-mailing teachers and adults?

Should students be allowed to write assignments in what amounts to gibberish? Could it be argued that its a 'natural evolution of language'?

Better yet, are teachers justified in failing students who submit their work written in this nonsense?

Some links on the issue:

http://www.umtsworld.com/lastword/lw0129.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2003-03-31-chat_x.htm

http://www.waterlilies.org/weblog/archives/2002/09/netsp33k_contro.html

School kids and College students. Would you/Have you written an assignement in net speak? Or E-mailed a teacher/adult with a polite request in net speak?


Hmmmm


My opinion. No. Just no. Students should NOT, not now, not ever, be allowed to submit work in net speak or anything short of whats regarded as correct english. A few grammatical and spelling mistakes should be ok. Major errors and mis-spellings should definately be pointed out. A whole piece of work written in short hand and net speak should be failed. On the spot. The teacher shouldn't even have to read the work for content before red penning the twit of a student into a F.

When I become a teacher I will defiantely fail any students who do that with me. And ignore any emails from students written like that.

[zell583]

net speak should stay on the net, except when it is used in comics.

[Anubis Nine]

Net speak *barely* belongs on the net. Every time I see it, a peice of me dies inside. Teachers are there to ensure that we can speak and write English to a certain level of profficiency before we graduate. And they should be able to make sure we do NOT graduate until we *can* speak and write English to their standards.

I saw a person I know graduating last year when he typed like this.

"she demands perfect grammer,but i try hard.allthe time"

He had substancial use of commas... and lacked knowledge on *spaces* it hurt me inside and in my soul. (While I nearly failed English 12 because the teacher and I were in a dispute)

[Jiant Flying Panda]

No...... HELL NO

Net speak should never be allowed to be used in serious writing. Just imagine what will happen in the long run?

[Janken]

I'd rather stick my dick in a meat grinder than use net speak.

[Jiant Flying Panda]

I'd rather stick my dick in a meat grinder than use net speak.

I would'nt.

[Shamu]

OMFG!!! no! teh netspeak/text speak should not be used! It will pwn the language! ROTFLMAO, no!
Really, leave it on the net and out of real life please.

[4letterwords]

I would, infact, bend over and kiss my own ass and admit self-defeat if netspeak was allowed in formal writing. The internet, whatever ok, I don't give a flying fuck. I don't give a cartwheeling fuck. I don't even give a paralyzed spitting fuck. But English is a great language, and it'd be a damn pitty to let it go to hell.

When I read this topic, I threw up a little. Good Job.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

If an English teacher gives at least one ounce of leniency on Internet speak then he has failed as a teacher.

Noting annoys me more than "u" being used instead of "you". I have never and will NEVER use "u" or any other shortcut in the english language.

lol and wtf is the extent on what I use.

[Spaatz965]

I think pretty much everyone who's comments I've read on this board will answer, in academia and serious writing, absolutely not! (except for maybe someone being contrarian just because)

But let's take this up the slippery slope a bit...How about smilies? };o)

Do they have a place in business corrosopondence? email? instant messaging? Does the medium matter? Does the nature of the communication matter (transactional/conversational, record/archival, etc)?

How about bits of the 'older' chat shorthand/acronyms (LOL, ROFL, BBL, etc.)?

Where does the line get drawn? Does the audience/recipient matter? If so, how?

<===edit====>

And how about SMS text messaging? Not that big here in the states, especially with devices like the blackberry and trio out there with complete character sets. However, SMS is fairly widely used in Wester Europe for short transactional messages.

[setrict]

The whole point of writing anything is the communication of ideas. If something doesn't help that communication, it shouldn't be used. Someone typing 'ur' instead of 'you are' causes me to shift focus from what they are saying to how they are saying it. It's bad. In general, if I hit leet speak, or intentional spelling changes in a text I stop reading, roll my eyes to the heavens and doubt the future of humanity. I probably barely cared enough to start reading in the first place, so the chances of me wading through your lazy and ill formed thoughts is practically zero.

I generally like acronyms like: lol, or my personal favorite WTF. I also like emoticons. They save time in chat, and and allow you to convey ideas quickly and more easily than text alone. They help expression/communication on the net, but I wouldn't use them in other mediums unless your intended audience would easily understand and accept them.

[bUs]

jeepers schmeepers i don't really chat all that much... but i didn't understand a lot of what was in the article.

netspeak is just dumb if you ask me... i do use the occasional 'u' and of course lol and rofl but that's coz its easier to type that hahahahahahahahaah. other than that... its just dumb.

[ElectronicPhreak]

Absolutely no. Letting kids speak in net speak completely undermines the whole point of English class. Also, people who say LOL instead of laughing need to die.

[keitaidensha]

one time a classmate said "doubleyew tee eff" when they heard something particularly astounding. when i made her aware that "what the fuck" is shorter, she just sort of stared at me.

[unoriginal_cyn]

Wow, I didn't know kids actually did this. Anyone who uses net speak in school work deserves a failing grade, no exceptions. I was floored by that first article. It had a sample of a girl's assignment and it was written entirely in net speak. That girl has some problems if she thought that it was in any way acceptable.

[Myrsilus]

Wow, I didn't know kids actually did this.
Same here. I've seen people write notes to each other with the net speak crap, but I would have never guess people were using it in essays...

I'm no grammar nazi and I think of myself as a pretty open-minded guy. I can take a lot. But I like to put considerable effort into essays (If I like the topic, that is...), and to see that people are considering net speak an applicable form of communication in essays really ticks me off.

As far as net speak being used in e-mails to teachers or whoever... Big deal. I could care less.

But if I ever see net speak in an essay, I will kill the culprit. It's not that hard to at least write in relatively proper English. I'm not even asking for people to learn perfect English... hell I probably don't speak or write in proper English the majority of the time. Just don't be so damn lazy. :mad:

[Pierrot le Fou]

They can write like that if they don't mind failing.

The one thing that does drive me nuts is the informality of the internet, and especially e-mail. When I get e-mails about business (or did in my last company) from some of the younger folk, they'd be so bloody unprofessional it drove me nuts.

C'est la vie.

[Myrsilus]

The one thing that does drive me nuts is the informality of the internet, and especially e-mail. When I get e-mails about business (or did in my last company) from some of the younger folk, they'd be so bloody unprofessional it drove me nuts.

C'est la vie.
... Sorry I can't imagine typing netspeak in a business e-mail.

That scares me some... If people are starting to type net speak in formal letters and e-mails, then the schools need to thwack and correct these idiots before letting them out into the world.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It isn't about net speak, it's just about the general degredation of language in general, and the blurring of personal and business life with the advent of the internet. Because so many people have 'casual' conversations online, and speak online as if they're speaking to their friends, anything that happens through e-mail tends to fall into that realm when they write.

Business e-mails should be professional and afford the same degree of formality that you would use if speaking to the person face to face. When I got e-mails that said, "hey, if you get a chance would you stop by to talk about the problems you found with my thing?" it would drive me crazy. If they actually came over, they would politely ask, "If you have the time, would you please come over to discuss the problems you found?" Over e-mail it was as if the formality was dropped out and it was like an addendum to a business conversation more suited to asking if I wanted to go to a nudie bar after work.

I have no problem with using this sort of language over SMS, because of the tiny keypad. I do the same over phone e-mails, but clearly it hasn't impacted my ability to write properly on a full keyboard. Anything written on a full keyboard -- INCLUDING IMs -- should be done correctly in my opinion. No need for proof-reading or spell-checking on IM perhaps, but nobody should feel compelled to type 'u' instead of 'you' when it takes about .2 extra seconds to do it properly.

[akitaka]

I'm glad to know that the kids in the first article (as I am lazy to read the others) understand that it's not for school, however.

The latter portion of that document really gave me a mind-freak.

[Kaji]

I work with ESL students, and it's hard enough getting them to understand the differences between some words as it is. When people get into strictly phonetic spellings it makes it harder for them to understand because if they don't understand what the word means, the dictionary isn't an option.

Personally, the only shorthand I ever use is BTW, which is one of the older and very well established ones. Never been a fan of LOL, hence my trademark laugh. Smilies I'm willing to allow to convey emotions and such, as raw text is very easy to misunderstand as it is, but I personally avoid using them because they've always felt too cutsey to me. In formal and business situations where you shouldn't be using innuendo or such in the first place and the tone should be pretty established, though, I am against the use of anything shy of proofread, textbook grammar and spelling. Likewise, vocabulary should reflect the proper level of formality as well.

Screw the F, there'd be a parent-teacher conference if one of my students were to turn in a paper to me done in 1337.

[Jon885]

No I don't agree with this but I do not know why. I say "lol" on the internet after I say a joke. Posting a joke and then saying "ha ha ha ha" doesn't seem natural at all. "heh" or "hehehehe" does but that makes you look sort of creepy in my opinion.

[Kaji]

No I don't agree with this but I do not know why. I say "lol" on the internet after I say a joke. Posting a joke and then saying "ha ha ha ha" doesn't seem natural at all. "heh" or "hehehehe" does but that makes you look sort of creepy in my opinion.

hehehe... (http://www.geocities.com/kaji_sensei01/kaji_hehehe.wav)

No, nothing creepy here at all...

That said, I'm getting the general feeling here that we're not condemning shorthand/smilies/etc. utterly or anything. I still deal with people who use smilies just fine (and indeed, get quite thrown off when someone who I'm accustomed to seeing using them stops doing so), I just stated that I don't because they're plain not my style (exception for when I use it to prove points). Use of well-established shorthand is all right online for stock phrases (e.g. BTW, ROFL, IMHO, etc.), so long as it doesn't get out of hand and you don't try using it in debates and such online (as it shows you don't take the subject matter seriously enough to devote the proper amount of time to it if you're just using shorthand so you can get it typed and get it out).

Where the issue lies, for the most part, is when people elect to use these, but don't know when to stop using them. Not everything is appropriate to each situation in English, even if we do lack the hard and fast formalities that other languages sometimes put into place (certainly nothing like what the Japanese have). A briefing for a customer should be in a cool, concise, and straightforward tone. Adding :D to the end isn't going to do much to make your customer feel at ease, and is quite out of place. Likewise, if you make it so that the customer has to decode what you're writing, they're not going to read it, meaning you're losing the company business, meaning the company's going to lose you as fast as possible. It's a losing situation for everyone involved except for the customer, who has one less boring briefing he needs to read and evaluate.

[Kass]

Not only would I give the student a failing grade on that assignment, I'd fail them twice and make them redo the assignment PLUS a few additional assignments so that they get plenty of practice using proper english. If I were feeling particularly cruel, I'd make them diagram all the sentences in their papers as well.

I guess that would be a "No, netspeak of any form should not be allowed in school assignments."

[Ev0]

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/n00b-2718.jpg

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

Also, people who say LOL instead of laughing need to die.

LOL!

(This ten character rule DOES suck)

[more cheerios]

My mother, who works in administration for a doctor's office, emails her boss like this:
"Hey ric i was just wondering if you could send me those files thanks Sharon"
WHAT the hell? I worked as a receptionist for her over the summer and told her to be more professional. She told me, "It's the internet, nobody cares."
ARRGH.

My senior English teacher went on a binge about this once, last year. She said students were handing in essays with horrid grammar, acronyms and horrible use of the english language (yes, even in the advanced senior classes). My one friend's sister types words wrong on purpose on the net because it's "easier".

Her: lol plz coz u noe that i luv u
Me: What the hell?

What do people get out of spelling "know" like "noe" or "you" like "u"? It doesn't make them look cool, it makes them look like a blithering idiot. I can understand acronyms (brb, wb, btw, etc.) but I can't understand purposely spelling words wrong.

[Snake eyeS]

If my kids would turn in a paper like that i would, just like Kass, return the paper with a huge X on it and made them redo it all over again. but i woudnt be a nazi about it, netspeak is gradually becoming part of kids, all i can do as a teacher is point out the difference between formal writing(papers, C.V, job letters etc) and just casual typing.. and that would be the end of it.. kids arent stupid, you can teach them the difference between 2 ways of writing. it seems you cannot, why is your english any better then their netspeak? why?

I would also like to point out that your all a bunch of whiners, cant you "adults" handle something as simple as ffs, lol, w/e? Everytime im amazed when another one falls down crying because they saw someone type in netspeak. are you THAT stupid that you cannot see what they are trying to say?
This new sort of language is upon us, are you guys that stubborn to see the world changes with or without your consent? you sound like old people, who complain that the people around them move to fast and that they cant keep up, the ones that are to young to even act adult, stop jumping on the bandwagon ffs.(omg another netspeak, i hope you guys knew what i ment with ffs, or is that to difficult? /sarcasm)

what is up with you people, are you the same kind that will whine their hearts out when they hear background music while waiting in the docters waiting room? yeez... never knew so many people were annoyed that fast. If you cant handle it, though shit, this world belongs to the kids, and its up to them what they make of it. we can educate them about the difference, but we cannot try and force them to do things our way(some remarks in this thread are not constructive AT ALL "if you use lol you should die" and similar remarks)


disclaimer: I know you all going to tear me apart with very neatly written articles that should be framed and such, but i hope i made it clear that i disagree with kids using netspeak when they are formally communicating(formal mailing, essays etc). this flame is directed at people who cant handle the fact that internet is filled with netspeak. I do not believe people will grow stupid because of netspeak.

i like bieng devils advocate, makes me smarter.. yay.


edit: isnt streetslang similair to this? and doesnt streetslang fade away when they grow up?

[Veren]

My one friend's sister types words wrong on purpose on the net because it's "easier".

Her: lol plz coz u noe that i luv u
Me: What the hell?

What do people get out of spelling "know" like "noe" or "you" like "u"? It doesn't make them look cool, it makes them look like a blithering idiot. I can understand acronyms (brb, wb, btw, etc.) but I can't understand purposely spelling words wrong.

Well, what do they get out of it? Less keystrokes.
Since online chatting is keyboard-based, it makes sense that the language used in a real-time medium might suffer from a certain level of "truncation". After all, we do this now with spoken English. Case in point, contractions. What does "isn't" provide that "is not" does not? It's merely a faster means of communicating. For an even less acceptable version, consider "gonna" instead of "going to".

The point is, people will truncate the language to make it faster, so long as the recipient can still understand what's being said. And I know, the difference between "noe" and "know" is one keystroke, that's true. But when you are typing a lot of words, it starts adding up. Or another example, "ne1" for "anyone". That's just halved the word, and so long as you understand the rules, you understand the meaning.

Granted, I myself don't use a whole lot of "netspeak", even on the net. I'm a quick typist and have gotten into the habit of spelling words correctly. I will use some abbreviations or acronyms, as appropriate. But I can see how young people might use it for convenience. Outside the net, in formal communication, it's out of place because it doesn't serve the purpose that it was intended for. You don't want to imply that you rushed out an important communication or a letter that you are trying to impress someone with, which is the one thing that netspeak DOES imply. In those cases, clear, concise language is far more important than speed of transmission.

Just my 2 yen.
YMMV. :-)

[more cheerios]

Contractions are an accepted part of the english language, replacing and changing letters because you are lazy is not. And in fact, depending on what you are writing, contractions are not acceptable.
See, the problem here is that the brain creates habits. Your (not directly, you) typing becomes habitual, whether the person believe it or not, and will show up elsewhere.

[Veren]

Contractions are an accepted part of the english language, replacing and changing letters because you are lazy is not.

Accepted by whom?

Clearly, teenagers on the Internet find replacing and changing letters to make things quicker to type find it very acceptable. CEOs of major corporations reviewing resumes for lawyers would find it very unacceptable inside a resume. But who do teenagers spend most of their time communicating with?

Changes to the English language become acceptable once a majority of people start using that change. Hence why we're calling it "email" instead of "e-mail" instead of "electronic mail". It went from "electronic mail" to "email" because people decided to become "lazy". "Faxes" weren't always "faxes"; they used to be "facsimilies". Someone got lazy, but hey, it works. Every year, there's not a new holiday called "Xmas", either. All "acceptable" English.

"Yo, r u coming 2 the party?" is not "acceptable" English, in the sense that most people do not spell quite like that. But it definitely is acceptable "netspeak". Will "netspeak" eventually change the way that words are spelled? Personally, I hate the idea of the word "you" being spelled as "u" and "are" being spelled as "r". But do I think that my opinion is going to change how the next generation changes the language? Hell, no. Just in the same way that all the clamoring for "no prepositions at the end of sentences" rule has seemingly vaporized. You're perfectly valid in saying "Where are you from?" instead of "From whence have you come?" nowadays. But when I was going to school, those sentence-ending prepositions were like nails on a blackboard to English grammar police everywhere.

So, no, I don't feel that "netspeak" is acceptable English right now. And I don't think that English teachers should accept "netspeak" as proper English right now. But I do feel that, in the future, the language will change in response to how it's being used by future generations, as it always has, and so that notion of unacceptability I mentioned above won't be true anymore.

(It's okay, really, because when THEY grow up, the youth of their era will do all sorts of unacceptable things to the language too, and they'll complain that "r kids rn't using teh right spellingz!" and the cycle will continue from there...) :eek: :rolleyes:

[raydude]

edit: isnt streetslang similair to this? and doesnt streetslang fade away when they grow up?

Nope, some people use streetslang as adults. And its just as inappropriate in the workplace or as an effective means of communication.

[Snake eyeS]

Nope, some people use streetslang as adults. And its just as inappropriate in the workplace or as an effective means of communication.

ok, i see that.

But even if an adult uses streetslang, he sure as hell woudnt talk like that to his boss/teacher. same as using netspeak in important letters.
Its all about where the person itself thinks its acceptable, i feel that on this boards people dont want the short netspeak conversations so i dont use it here. but when im playing an online game im talking netspeak only.. because that online world is going fast and i need to keep up with chatting and playing at the same time.. same as i talk to my friend with streetslang but when im in the class with "my" 12 years olds i speak dutch in a correct manner.

interactive chatting almost requires netspeak if you want to finish the conversation within 24 hours(someone pointed this out in this thread before)
so i see no harm in using netspeak when its "needed". that people use it in papers and essays is just a bit odd, they must not think its a big deal then.

[Loc]

txt spk pisses me off soo much so naturally, I wouldn't like to see it in college...

Was sat in Film Studies yesterday, class was moved so we could work with other people, they all seemed ok, playing a bit of extreme rock, paper, scissors with a friend.

This girl is talking some rubbish about math or something so I kinda zone out, then I hear "yeah and I wrote an essay like I was texting! 2 for to and all that! Mr. King went mad at me and made me..."yadda yadda, etc.

I was cheering for Mr. King in my head, he's a funny guy so I could only imagine what he did...

[Trump]

Does netspeak speed things up? I really don't think so. If you actually know how to type, and get used to typing certain words, replacing "anyone" with any1 isn't any faster because your fingers just go and you have to relearn how to type words.

But regardless, I like to treat people with polite respect and one of the easiest ways to do that is type like you care instead of using netspeak.

[Random]

(It's okay, really, because when THEY grow up, the youth of their era will do all sorts of unacceptable things to the language too, and they'll complain that "r kids rn't using teh right spellingz!" and the cycle will continue from there...) :eek: :rolleyes:

I intend to be very, very dead by then. I fear the coming of that day.

Snake, despite acting Devil's Advocate in almost every thread I've seen you in, you can actually have a conversation pretty quickly without using netspeak. I generally don't talk to people who do, and I still find I can have normal, quick conversations.

I did, once, do an experiment to check this. I wrote the same passage twice, once with netspeak and once properly. The proper one was 2 seconds quicker - I'm so much more used to typing properly that I type like this faster than I do with netspeak.

Thus, I don't use it. Ever.
Oh, and to those who commented on keystrokes, I'm very much hoping for direct neural interfaces before netspeak becomes that common. If at all possible, interfaces that can spell.
This way, netspeak goes away.

[Snake eyeS]

i love bieng the devils advocate, as i said before.. i think it makes me smarter.. and personally i do it because it brings flavor to this board which can turn dull with all the hopping on bandwagons and asskissing.

[Random]

It does bring flavour, that's for sure :D

[Veren]

I intend to be very, very dead by then. I fear the coming of that day.

I'm with you on that one.

I did, once, do an experiment to check this. I wrote the same passage twice, once with netspeak and once properly. The proper one was 2 seconds quicker - I'm so much more used to typing properly that I type like this faster than I do with netspeak.

Thus, I don't use it. Ever.
Oh, and to those who commented on keystrokes, I'm very much hoping for direct neural interfaces before netspeak becomes that common. If at all possible, interfaces that can spell.
This way, netspeak goes away.

I have used this sort of bastardized shortening of words only once I can think of, and because I knew it would be faster than the conventional way. And that was when I needed to send a quick message off to a friend on my cellphone. So, yes, in terms of keystrokes on a phone, the difference between 'you' and 'u' is 8 to 2 (hit '9' three times for 'y', '6' three times for 'o', 7 two times for 'u' as opposed to just 7 twice for the 'u'). Plus, when your phone only allows messages up to 128 characters long, conservation of letters is important. In fact, since the advent of cell phone text messaging, the use of 'netspeak' (particularly misspellings that shorten words) has been going up, just in my observation.

With direct neural interfaces, you'd lose "netspeak". But wouldn't you also lose "writing" entirely? In what medium would we store conversation "archives"? Perhaps we ought to just let this aspect on the conversation go, for fear of hijacking the thread with neurotechnobabble. :)

[Trump]

Yeah, there is really no way around it on a cell phone. Of course text messaging on a cell phone just sucks so I don't do it...

[Random]

No. I use no netspeak on my phone, and thanks to predictive typing it's still only 2 keypresses off.

Also, if you're filling up a text message, you should be ringing them.

[DarkFire168]

*Prepares a noose*

Netspeak in the classroom? It's finally time for me to die. I won't live in a world with 1337 or whatever you want to call it (I personally just stick with "crap").

*Kicks his own chair out from under his feet*

Hurk! *Gurgle**Die* XP

[more cheerios]

Accepted by whom?

Clearly, teenagers on the Internet find replacing and changing letters to make things quicker to type find it very acceptable. CEOs of major corporations reviewing resumes for lawyers would find it very unacceptable inside a resume. But who do teenagers spend most of their time communicating with?
Oh, so we should let teenagers off simply because they are teenagers? Yes, let's just say, "Hey, I shouldn't deter you, simply because you are a teenager! And by being a teenager, I should let you use sloppy grammar, simply because! I won't tell you what is wrong, because clearly you will find out on your own if nobody ever tells you!"

Changes to the English language become acceptable once a majority of people start using that change. Hence why we're calling it "email" instead of "e-mail" instead of "electronic mail". It went from "electronic mail" to "email" because people decided to become "lazy". "Faxes" weren't always "faxes"; they used to be "facsimilies". Someone got lazy, but hey, it works. Every year, there's not a new holiday called "Xmas", either. All "acceptable" English.
Except for the fact that those examples are not simply taking vowels and constants out at random places, which makes no sense what-so-ever. Also, if you haven't noticed, those are all nouns. People rename nouns all of the time. People don't rename words. We don't see anyone rewording adjectives or verbs, now do we?

"Yo, r u coming 2 the party?" is not "acceptable" English, in the sense that most people do not spell quite like that. But it definitely is acceptable "netspeak". Will "netspeak" eventually change the way that words are spelled? Personally, I hate the idea of the word "you" being spelled as "u" and "are" being spelled as "r". But do I think that my opinion is going to change how the next generation changes the language? Hell, no. Just in the same way that all the clamoring for "no prepositions at the end of sentences" rule has seemingly vaporized. You're perfectly valid in saying "Where are you from?" instead of "From whence have you come?" nowadays. But when I was going to school, those sentence-ending prepositions were like nails on a blackboard to English grammar police everywhere.
So what is right is defined by the majority now, hm? Oh, I know that it's completely acceptable as "netspeak" but what I am saying is that teenagers should not be so sloppy. Again, I will repeat, we are creatures of habit. Teenagers, especially. My english teachers even noticed this.

So, no, I don't feel that "netspeak" is acceptable English right now. And I don't think that English teachers should accept "netspeak" as proper English right now. But I do feel that, in the future, the language will change in response to how it's being used by future generations, as it always has, and so that notion of unacceptability I mentioned above won't be true anymore.

(It's okay, really, because when THEY grow up, the youth of their era will do all sorts of unacceptable things to the language too, and they'll complain that "r kids rn't using teh right spellingz!" and the cycle will continue from there...) :eek: :rolleyes:
I see.
Well, again I will restate, letting teenagers off "simply because" is unacceptable. I am eighteen and am simply disguted at the illteracy of today's society.
A good article for you to read would be Don't You Think It's Time To Start Thinking? by Northrop Frye.

[unoriginal_cyn]

So it's generally agreed that no matter how annoying netspeak is, it's pretty handy when you need to type something quickly in IM or if you have a character limit like texing between cell phones. Sure, I can handle that, but there's really no excuse using it in school work. Surely you have the time to write words out. No one is expecting you to write an essay in 2.5 seconds. If you've ever had to write a formal essay, then you know that you can't even use contractions. I guess the idea is that you should really have the time to spell things out and make your writing sound less casual.

[Soli]

I'd laugh if someone turned an English paper in written using the binary code. Now THAT would be funny!

O.K., on topic, I don't like netspeak either. It really bugs me.

EDIT: BTW, like my new arvartar? :D

[DarkFire168]

Solitudity... I'm gonna do that now. I'm gonna turn in a written formal essay in binary. I'll post how bad my teachers reaction is when I get it.

[Random]

I'd laugh if someone turned an English paper in written using the binary code. Now THAT would be funny!

O.K., on topic, I don't like netspeak either. It really bugs me.

EDIT: BTW, like my new arvartar? :D

I handed in a 20 question maths paper in binary.
And my teacher read it, and marked it O_O

[bUs]

tH|s thR4@d a|\/| tH3 su><0r$!



*runs away* :D

[bUs]

okok seriously... before i get some serious haters.. :p

netspeak is stupid. yes i've been known to use it, but heck i'm a 26 year-old IT professional who knows the difference between what can be used in real life and what just makes you sound like a troll. Probably the main reason for that is I never had a mobile phone until I was like 18 and text messaging was far from popular back then and netspeak was just beginning to gain a stronghold on our lives. So I guess the basics of using correct grammar and spelling are set for me.

unfortunately netspeak, as it has been pointed out has seriously corrupted today's youngins. Most learn words like noob and pwned before they learn how to speak and pronounce properly. I won't be surprised if in the next few years noob will be the first word that comes out a baby's mouth.

having said that, i do use contractions or whatever the hell you want to call them like brb. Actually hrmm that's the only shortcut i use on a regular basis. And lol.

lol.

:D

with regards to text messaging - i use predictive text, but if there's too much to type then i end up cutting words.

[more cheerios]

.. Acronyms, not contractions. XD
Contractions are things like "can't" and "don't".

[Veren]

Oh, so we should let teenagers off simply because they are teenagers? Yes, let's just say, "Hey, I shouldn't deter you, simply because you are a teenager! And by being a teenager, I should let you use sloppy grammar, simply because! I won't tell you what is wrong, because clearly you will find out on your own if nobody ever tells you!"

Absolutely not. I'm not suggesting that English classes suddenly convert over into netspeak. Or even that handing in essays in such language is appropriate. But there is an appropriate medium for netspeak, namely the net, where depending upon who you are, it's perfectly acceptable.

It's a lot like slang. Now, we could all be little grammar nazis and run around telling kids that their slang (and their netspeak) is WRONG, BAD, INCORRECT, and that they're terrible people for using it. Or, we could make them understand that there's a time and a place to use slang (and netspeak) and a time and a place where they cannot. And eventually, one might say inevitably, some of the elements of that slang and netspeak will be integrated into the language.

So what is right is defined by the majority now, hm? Oh, I know that it's completely acceptable as "netspeak" but what I am saying is that teenagers should not be so sloppy. Again, I will repeat, we are creatures of habit. Teenagers, especially. My english teachers even noticed this.

Well, I agree that teenagers should not be so sloppy. And, in truth, teenagers who do not use netspeak and are sloppy still make mistakes. The issue isn't really about "netspeak" any more than it's about "slang". Teenagers are aware that they shouldn't use slang with their parents. A teenager's speech changes depending upon who they are speaking to, and really, that's true for everyone. And so if netspeak shows up on a term paper, it's as wrong as if slang had shown up.

(Something just occurred to me as I was writing this, and I think it's an important point. In general, slang doesn't show up on essays because slang (in general) tends to be spoken a lot more than it is written. Whereas netspeak is almost always communicated in written form, which is why it would tend to appear more on written essays.)

I see. Well, again I will restate, letting teenagers off "simply because" is unacceptable. I am eighteen and am simply disguted at the illteracy of today's society.
A good article for you to read would be Don't You Think It's Time To Start Thinking? by Northrop Frye.

Agreed. I don't think letting teenagers off is the right thing to do. Use of netspeak outside of the net (and sometimes even inside the net) gives the reader a poor opinion of the writer, in the same way that the use of slang does. Teens will learn in school that netspeak isn't acceptable in formal communications, or teens will learn it when they leave school and try to get a job with a cover letter full of netspeak and they get rejected, time and again. They will learn, one way or another, that netspeak conveys a certain sense of the writer to the reader, and not always a good one.

(However, in the future, when all the teenagers now grow up and become the CEOs and adult readers of the English language world, if they decide that certain things are acceptable as English, then English will change to accomodate. I'm not really looking forward to that, myself, but it's bound to happen with at least some words or phrases or God-forbid spellings.)

*EDIT: fixed a few typos and removed some hair-splitting.

[raydude]

Use of netspeak outside of the net (and sometimes even inside the net) gives the reader a poor opinion of the writer, in the same way that the use of slang does. Teens will learn in school that netspeak isn't acceptable in formal communications, or teens will learn it when they leave school and try to get a job with a cover letter full of netspeak and they get rejected, time and again. They will learn, one way or another, that netspeak conveys a certain sense of the writer to the reader, and not always a good one.

(However, in the future, when all the teenagers now grow up and become the CEOs and adult readers of the English language world, if they decide that certain things are acceptable as English, then English will change to accomodate.)


The two seem contradictory don't they? If a current teenager continues to use netspeak or slang, even in job interviews, presentations, and formal documents, then they would be received poorly. Last I checked most CEOs don't get to be CEO's by being received poorly.

By the same token if a teenager drops netspeak to become a CEO then he's not going to try to introduce netspeak into conventional english just out of a feeling of "Viva le netspeak". He'll continue to speak and write in conventional english.

Informal correspondence, such as email and letters may slowly morph into becoming more netspeak-like. But I feel that professional correspondence has a way of being 'self-correcting', so at the very least we can expect doctors, lawyers, media, and businessmen to carry on in standard english.

[Veren]

The two seem contradictory don't they? ...

Informal correspondence, such as email and letters may slowly morph into becoming more netspeak-like. But I feel that professional correspondence has a way of being 'self-correcting', so at the very least we can expect doctors, lawyers, media, and businessmen to carry on in standard english.

Yes, I don't think that formal high-level business communications will take on a level of 'netspeak' so much as informal communications might. I'm fairly certain no one would be signing a contract that makes mention to anyone "pwning" someone for breach of contract. I also don't think that any PR departments will be putting out how they "buffed their product to 1337 status!" But I do think the common worker might start using "netspeak" in regular correspondence. In fact, given the secretary's example presented above, one might say that it's already creeping into the realm of the workplace (although I think that communication is still rare, thankfully). Remember that when I talk about this stuff creeping into the language, I mean standard, day-to-day language, not formal business communications, legal communications or the like.

With that in mind, teenagers who drop the netspeak to become eventual CEOs will merely be trading one obsfucating communication style (netspeak) for another (businessese). So instead of saying "we will pwn you cuz we are 1337 ha><><0rz!" , they'll say "We provide superior customer service because we are a goal-oriented company that leverages its core competencies and structurally provides an appropriate business paradigm for the current marketplace." :D But that's another conversation entirely.

[more cheerios]

Yes, I don't think that formal high-level business communications will take on a level of 'netspeak' so much as informal communications might. I'm fairly certain no one would be signing a contract that makes mention to anyone "pwning" someone for breach of contract.
You also have to realize that people with CEO positions and whatnot probably did not grow up with the internet.

[Ichisan]

Look the only danger is that people will fail to realise they have to use a whole different register in a different medium, that is, formal writing. It's ok to use netspeak so long as you know proper English too and know when it should be used too.

With the enormous influence of email, the internet, and comic books too, accompanied by decreasing formality in the workplace, the use of formal English as a medium of communication has declined to the extent that many kids growing up now have little or no experience of it, are ignorant of its rules, and may make the mistake of thinking it has no relevance. One reason it is very relevant is that essay-writing or composition forms one of the mainstays of the education system, but the deeper reason is that formal language enables one to describe a situation in objective terms, so that outsiders unfamiliar with the context can understand. Similarly, adherence to a formal standard of English enables English speakers to communicate internationally regardless of local dialectal variation. If netspeak truly does come to undermine current standards of English the internationality of the internet may mean the latter point is moot, but it will still need to address the basic issue of objectivity, not to mention that the entirety of written English to date will have to be translated/mutilated just so that lazy teenage school brats can understand anything.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Idiots who use chatspeak on their homework should DIE.

[Darkblade]

leave netspeak on the net. If you make the stupid mistake of allowing it in school PAPER based work, you are opening a pandoras box for the future..

why you ask?

This sentence is designed to show what happens when people begin to change things to the point where it is no longer a laughing matter.

here in semi-netspeak
This is to show sup when ppl begin 2 change tings to where its not 4 lol anymore.

and here is what you will see after that
7H15 53N73NC3 15 D351GN3D 70 5H0W WH47 H4PP3N5 WH3N P30PL3 B3G1N 70 CH4NG3 7H1NG5 70 7H3 P01N7 WH3R3 17 15 N0 L0NG3R 4 L4UGH1NG M4773R.
(people that CAN write, but intentionally hand in 10 page term papers in this manner to piss people off. Can you imagine having to grade 20 or 30 of these???)

and of course this:
01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110011 01100101 01101110 01110100 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100100 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100111 01101110 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101111 01110111 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01101110 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100111 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101110 01100111 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110000 01101111 01101001 01101110 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100111 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101100 01100001 01110101 01100111 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101101 01100001 01110100 01110100 01100101 01110010 00101110

and this
Fmpmfpmfffmm fmmmpppppfmpmpppppmmfmpp mfffmm mpmmppfmmmffmfmpppmppmpm fmpppf fmmmfpppffpp fppmfpmmmfmp mfpmmmpfmpfmmpppppfmm fppmfpmppppp pfmmppppfpfmpmfmpp mmpmppmfmmffppp fmpppf mmfmfpmmmpppmfmmpp fmpmfpmffpppmfmfmm fmpppf fmpmfpmpp pfmppfmffpppfmp fppmfpmpppffmpp mfffmp mfffmm pppppf pmfppfpppmfmmpppff mmm pmfmmmfmfmfmmfpmffpppmfm ppmmmmfmpfmpmpppff.


Do your part to stop it now, while its not too late.

[Scott]

I don't think they should be able to do it - modern day net speak is derived in part from pager speak from the eighties - it wasn't acceptable to write papers in shorthand then and it is not acceptable now.

Every communication style has its own place, and serious communications that need to be understand by as many people as possible should not be written in shorthand.

I'm just being a picky nazi here, but the plural of 'medium' is 'media'.

[chinesejycc]

It's stupid enough to use "txt tlk" on the internet already. The internet may be the only place some of you actually type, or write, and using "txt tlk" in real life might as well guarantee your future as an illiterate, incompetent, moron. :D

[Speciou5]

No. If they do then I demand newspeak. Might as well go for full orwellian dystopia 100%.

outpostnine doubleplusgood ignorance is strength unlearn now

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

LoL! u fcukk3n scuxx0rz, ch1-n33z ph4G! pwn~ lah~ ^_^V L(-.-L )

Everytime a person uses netspeak, Buddha eats a house.

[Veren]

Is nothing sacred?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4318750.stm

:eek:

[General_Failure]

Wow, I think I almost had a brain aneurysm trying to read the first article. Like in the military we have a book called "Ink and Pen" stupid name, but it is something you get when you need to write an actual business letter. In text of course, cause I think everyone has forgotten how to actually write, my TI in basic said I have the handwriting of a serial killer, I just looked at him and said "Thanks!" and walked off. I do know where I go that l33t speak and shorthand are shunned, and that’s good old telnet chatting(cause IRC is gay) ^^