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Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
12-30-2007, 02:33 AM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,474636,00.html

Forty-eight percent of Germans think the United States is more dangerous than Iran, a new survey shows, with only 31 percent believing the opposite. Germans' fundamental hypocrisy about the US suggests that it's high time for a new bout of re-education.

The Germans have believed in many things in the course of their recent history. They've believed in colonies in Africa and in the Kaiser. They even believed in the Kaiser when he told them that there would be no more political parties, only soldiers on the front.

Not too long afterwards, they believed that Jews should be placed into ghettos and concentration camps because they were the enemies of the people. Then they believed in the autobahn and that the Third Reich would ultimately be victorious. A few years later, they believed in the Deutsche mark. They believed that the Berlin Wall would be there forever and that their pensions were safe. They believed in recycling as well as in cheap jet travel. They even believed in a German victory at the soccer World Cup.

Now they believe that the United States is a greater threat to world peace than Iran. This was the by-no-means-surprising result of a Forsa opinion poll commissioned by Stern magazine. Young Germans in particular -- 57 percent of 18-to-29-year-olds, to be precise -- said they considered the United States more dangerous than the religious regime in Iran.

The German political establishment, which will no doubt loudly lament the result of the poll, is largely responsible for this wave of anti-Americanism. For years the country's foreign ministers fed the Germans the fairy tale of what they called a "critical dialogue" between Europe and Iran. It went something like this: If we are nice to the ayatollahs, cuddle up to them a bit and occasionally wag our fingers at them when they've been naughty, they'll stop condemning their women to death for "unchaste behavior" and they'll stop building the atom bomb.

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That plan failed at some point -- an outcome, incidentally, that Washington had long anticipated. Iran continues to work away unhindered on its nuclear program, and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reacts to UN demands with an ostentatious show of ignorance. The UN gets upset and drafts a resolution.

Another item on the Iranian president's wish list is the annihilation of Israel. But that will take a bit longer. In the meantime, just to make sure it doesn't get out of practice, the regime had 15 British soldiers kidnapped a few days ago. But it's still all the Americans' fault -- that much is obvious.

Inherently evil

We've known just what they're like for a long time. The 19th-century German author Karl May taught us about the American Wild West, and Karl Marx warned us about unbridled capitalism. Besides, we've all been there at least once -- on vacation, of course. Be it in California or Florida (that's where you get the best deals on rental cars, you know), we can see right through the Americans.

For us Germans, the Americans are either too fat or too obsessed with exercise, too prudish or too pornographic, too religious or too nihilistic. In terms of history and foreign policy, the Americans have either been too isolationist or too imperialistic. They simply go ahead and invade foreign countries (something we Germans, of course, would never do) and then abandon them, the way they did in Vietnam and will soon do in Iraq.

Worst of all, the Americans won the war in 1945. (Well, with German help, of course -- from Einstein and his ilk.) There are some Germans who will never forgive the Americans for VE Day, when they defeated Hitler. After all, Nazism was just an accident, whereas Americans are inherently evil. Just look at President Bush, the man who, as some of SPIEGEL ONLINE's readers steadfastly believe, "is worse than Hitler." Now that gives us a chance to kill two birds with one stone. If Bush is the new Hitler, then we Germans have finally unloaded the Führer on to someone else. In fact, we won't even have to posthumously revoke his German citizenship, as politicians in Lower Saxony recently proposed (more...). No one can hold a candle to our talent for symbolism!

Anti-Americanism is the wonder drug of German politics. If no one believes what you're saying, take a swing at the Yanks and you'll be shooting your way back up to the top of the opinion polls in no time. And on the practical side, you can be the head of the Social Democratic Party and endear yourself to the party's hardcore with a load of anti-American nonsense, and still get invited back to Washington -- just look at Gerhard Schröder. In fact, you could, like leading German politicians in the debate over the planned American missile shield in Europe (more...), be accused of having "an almost unbelievable lack of knowledge" by a former NATO general, and even that wouldn't matter. It's all about what you believe, not what you know.

Anti-Americanism is hypocrisy at its finest. You can spend your evening catching the latest episode of "24" and then complain about Guantanamo the next morning. You can claim that the Americans have themselves to blame for terrorism, while at the same time calling for tougher restrictions on Muslim immigration to Germany. You can call the American president a mass murderer and book a flight to New York the next day. You can lament the average American's supposed lack of culture and savvy and meanwhile send off for the documents for the Green Card lottery.

Not a day passes in Germany when someone isn't making the wildest claims, hurling the vilest insults or spreading the most outlandish conspiracy theories about the United States. But there's no risk involved and it all serves mainly to boost the German feeling of self-righteousness.

Not so safe

Iran is a different story. The last time someone made a joke on German TV about an Iranian leader, the outcome was not pleasant. Exactly 20 years ago, Dutch entertainer Rudi Carell produced a short TV sketch portraying Ayatollah Khomeini dressed in women's underwear. Carell received death threats. The piece, which lasted all of a few seconds, led to flights being cancelled and German diplomats being expelled from Tehran. Carell apologized. Jokes about fat Americans are just safer.

Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, the American historian who in his 1996 book "Hitler's Willing Executioners" deprived the Germans of the belief that they didn't know what was going on back in the day, is currently studying the history of genocides in the 20th century. One of the things he has noticed is that the politicians or military leaders who planned genocides and had them carried out rarely concealed their intentions in advance. Whether the victims were Hereros, Armenians, kulaks, Jews or later Bosnians, the perpetrators generally believed that they were justified and had no reason to hide their murderous intentions.

Today, when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad talks about a world without Israel while dreaming of an atom bomb, it seems obvious that we -- as Germans of all people -- should be putting two and two together. Why shouldn't Ahmadinejad mean what he says? But we Germans only know what we believe.

The Americans are more dangerous than the ayatollahs? Perhaps the Americans should take the Germans at their word for a change. It's high time for a new round of re-education. The last one obviously didn't do the job.

Claus Christian Malzahn is SPIEGEL ONLINE's Berlin bureau chief.

Noel
12-30-2007, 09:19 AM
To an extent, this is true of many countries. We say damn your warmongering, but think all in all it's quite a good thing. Then, to appease our consciences when civilians start dying, we say the US and its allies botched the job. Have cake, eating it.

Roland
12-30-2007, 01:53 PM
As a German citizen, I want so say a few things:

1. We still have the Autobahns and are one of the few countries with no speed limit :)
2. The deutsche Mark lasted nearly 40 years. (won't tell you the $->€ exchange rate here^^)
3. Most of us still believe in recycling.
4. We could have won the soccer World cup.
4.1 In fact, we DID win the soccer World cup, for women.

Rest is pretty much true, but I guess, thats true of many countries as Noel said. I thing our Home secretary is worse than the Iranian Regime. Starting 1.1.08, all Internet, Phone and mobile phone connection data will be saved 6 month long. "To fight terrorism". So Taliban, use the normal mail instead.

Random
12-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Also you're not allowed to download or possess any computer security tools that might be used for 'hacking'.

But then the American telecoms wiretap anyone the government ask them to, so...

Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
12-30-2007, 05:12 PM
Well the "legal" wiretapping is for people who are making calls to the outside of the United States.

Ya know, because you could be calling terrorism.

Jetsetlemming
12-31-2007, 01:54 AM
The German censorship of anything they perceive as violent or containing Nazi propaganda (Because Wolfenstein is surely gonna convert people to Nazism, sure :sarcasm:) is enough to inspire a dislike from me.
The only thing that gets censored by the American government is CP.

Chris
12-31-2007, 03:49 AM
The German censorship of anything they perceive as violent or containing Nazi propaganda (Because Wolfenstein is surely gonna convert people to Nazism, sure :sarcasm:) is enough to inspire a dislike from me.
The only thing that gets censored by the American government is CP.


Eh, I highly doubt that's the only thing they sensor.

Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
12-31-2007, 05:23 AM
Eh, I highly doubt that's the only thing they sensor.

Yeah! They have radar for that!

whispering
12-31-2007, 08:04 AM
Eh, I highly doubt that's the only thing they sensor.
Selfsensor is a diffrent thing. Like not releasing Battle Royale to theaters cause a school shooting happening at that time would have been a disaster to the company. Altering all shows cause some lady showed her boobie, is a fear of law suits not sensorship. The end is the same, though.

Shuft
12-31-2007, 11:00 AM
Yeah! They have radar for that!
I loled


Also, as an American, all I have to add is a big
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t183/cdubroboto/jokes/text/america-fuck-yeah.jpg

Jetsetlemming
12-31-2007, 01:10 PM
I loled


Also, as an American, all I have to add is a big
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t183/cdubroboto/jokes/text/america-fuck-yeah.jpg
That image only needs a robot fighting a monster truck.

Beowulf
12-31-2007, 01:32 PM
There are no bald eagles in that picture, it is therefor invalidated.

Chris
12-31-2007, 02:17 PM
Selfsensor is a diffrent thing. Like not releasing Battle Royale to theaters cause a school shooting happening at that time would have been a disaster to the company. Altering all shows cause some lady showed her boobie, is a fear of law suits not sensorship. The end is the same, though.

Nah, I wasn't really referring to that. I think the censorship can come into many different way. One of the most productive is is when the government will ask the media to be quiet about a story for a couple days/weeks while they wrap up an investigation. Though I've heard that the government can sometimes be a bit heavy handed in this, I don't believe this is some extreme form of censorship that we need to be scared of, that's just daily business.

Now if you were to go online and present detailed schematics of Air Force One and the best place to attach an explosive, when to detonate it, and so on; then yes the government is going to censor you pretty damn quick. But that's on the far side of the spectrum and again is probably a type censorship that we need.

There are probably many other examples I'm missing; some more serious, many probably not. I'm not screaming "conspiracy," here, just saying that child porn is far from the only thing our government lets go free.

japanat
12-31-2007, 03:34 PM
There are no bald eagles in that picture,What did you think she was aiming at? :hphone:

Pierrot le Fou
01-08-2008, 12:24 AM
1. We still have the Autobahns and are one of the few countries with no speed limit :)
The recommended speed of the German autobahn is 130 km/h (81 mph). Austrian and Swiss autobahns have general speed limits of 130 km/h (81 mph) and 120 km/h (75 mph), respectively. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn)

In the years before 1974's 55 mph National Maximum Speed Limit, and for three years after the 1995 65 mph repeal, Montana had a non-numeric "reasonable and prudent" speed limit during the daytime on most rural roads. Montana Code Annotated (MCA) Section 61-8-303 said "A person . . . shall drive the vehicle . . . at a rate of speed no greater than is reasonable and proper under the conditions existing at the point of operation . . . so as not to unduly or unreasonably endanger the life, limb, property, or other rights of a person entitled to the use of the street or highway." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States)
2. The deutsche Mark lasted nearly 40 years. (won't tell you the $->€ exchange rate here^^)
The dollar has lasted 215 years.
3. Most of us still believe in recycling.
Most of you also seem to believe the US is a bigger threat than Iran. Clearly what you believe doesn't hold much water.
4. We could have won the soccer World cup.
So could the US.
4.1 In fact, we DID win the soccer World cup, for women.
So did the US.

Hrmph.

Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
01-08-2008, 08:40 AM
Oh snap.:clap:

Roland
01-08-2008, 02:22 PM
The recommended speed of the German autobahn is 130 km/h (81 mph). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn)

Recommended basically means nothing.... Everybody is driving as fast as he wants.

Most of you also seem to believe the US is a bigger threat than Iran.

Did I say something about US compared to Iran? Let me reread my post...... Nope, I didn't.


So could the US.

Congratulations


So did the US.

Two time a row? :P

Don't take my post seriously. Every country has its fault, and it's easier to find the faults of others rather than the own.If you would have read it to the end, you could have read that I myself critizised my Country.

japanat
01-08-2008, 02:29 PM
Don't take my post seriously. Every country has its fault, and it's easier to find the faults of others rather than the own.Maybe not now, in the new, improved Bush's US, but when I grew up in the VietNam era, finding our own faults was a national pastime (and there were plenty).

Random
01-08-2008, 05:38 PM
The dollar has lasted 215 years.

And the Pound has lasted for around 1250 years, a millennium more than the dollar.

Kyletherealninja
01-08-2008, 09:20 PM
Just out of curiosity, why is the the value of the pound so much higher than the US dollar?

Random
01-08-2008, 09:38 PM
I think you may as well ask why the yen is so much weaker: they're just different currencies, one of one isn't worth one of another.

That said, I like the think the real reason is to do with how much more the UK rocks.

SoulPlay
01-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Isnt it because the pound is heavily involved with monetary transactions therefore it is highly demanded?

japanat
01-09-2008, 03:21 AM
Isnt it because the pound is heavily involved with monetary transactions therefore it is highly demanded?nice PoUNd