Pakistan's Illegal Arms Markets

[Beowulf]

Inside one of Pakistan's tribal arms manufacturing centers and markets. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M)

Amazing stuff.

[悲しいパンダ]

That is freaking crazy. These kids grow up around guns. Looks like they even make them. I don't know whether I should be amazed or terrified.

[Urban~Ninja]

Go to VBS.tv and go to the shows section and then to the vice guide to travel on the left hand side bar and then on the now right hand side the last two links (Gun Market of Jihad and Bulgarian Dirty Bombs) and be shocked, they show the construction of guns/ammo in poor towns and how easy it is for just average joes to get their hands on a warhead.

EDIT! Just realised that the Pakistan episode of VBS.tv thats been ripped and put on You Tube, you can see all the episodes on the VBS website. VBS = Vice Magazine Broadcasting System. If you know anything about Vice Magazine/The Vice Guides you will know whats there.

[Mechs]

So the kids grow up around guns. What's to be afraid of? Just a way of making a living.

Now I just hope these weapons aren't actually getting into the hands of the taliban, or else somebody needs to drop a couple of 2,000 pound bombs on those bitches. If it's helping the enemy, it's got to go.

[Urban~Ninja]

So the kids grow up around guns. What's to be afraid of? Just a way of making a living.

Now I just hope these weapons aren't actually getting into the hands of the taliban, or else somebody needs to drop a couple of 2,000 pound bombs on those bitches. If it's helping the enemy, it's got to go.

Well if you watch the Gun Markets of Jihad and Bulgarian Dirty Bombs then yes they are getting into the hands of the wrong people.

[Beowulf]

It gets into the hands of everybody, it's not like the Taliban are the only ones in the market for firearms in the area.

[Plekto]

First off, there's nothing technicall illegal about making firearms. Who they sell it to, well, that's another story.(otoh, most arms in the world are made in the U.S. and Europe - so it gets very grey)

They say it only takes a couple of days to make an AK, and it requires pretty basic 1800s level technology tools. Of course, that's also why they are such rubbish as well. If you've ever seen on in real life, we're talking very primitive levels of technology. 20+ years ago you could get the semi-auto versions in most of the U.S. and they were imported for well under $100 back then. Sometimes you'd see surplus junk from Pakistan and China for $60-$70 on sale. Ugly, heavy, crude, and as much precision in the making as a kid's high school woodshop project.

All it requires are a few basic tools, some steel, and a lathe to make a basic (modern)firearm. Simpler stuff like a shotgun or anything with an unrifled barrel, it gets even simpler.

The bombs, though, that gets a whole lot more scary. But even then, all a "dirty bomb" is is a bunch of low grade radioactive material(usually medical waste) tossed in with a normal bomb or IED. The idea is to make cleanup in that 1-2 block area a real PITA. We're not talking about miles and miles of damage - the difference between a dirty bomb or a cobbled together nuke and a real nuke that works properly is tens of thousands of times more powerful.

Either it works perfectly or not at all and just makes a big mess to clean up.

[Shuft]

We should just buy them all. Unless they are being sold to the taliban for moralistic reasons, they would never be able to get guns again. We have plenty of money to do it.

[DizBukHaPeter]

If you think all kalashnikovs are pos, youve never seen one from Izmash, Saiga, or Sako. Chinese made ak's are actually prized in america, they fetch from upwards of $900. An ak made in america start at $900 from Arsenal.

This vid is pretty old, ive seen in a military forum where they talked about it extensively. Those old guys are true craftsmen, they stuff they make is just as good as the original. They build from hand weapons that are close in tolerances to machined weapons everytime and referring to a master copy. Not only that, but they produce ammunition to tolerances by hand as well.

Id be very happy to go there, did you not see the many rare and priceless antiques in the video? Lot of respect to those craftsmen.

[Trump]

Gun building kits are fairly common in the US too. You can do all sorts of crazy things.

[Plekto]

True, the original ones make in Russia were fine examples, but there's just a world of difference between the originals and the later junk, especially something being made in Pakistan. Even most of the "better" ones are very poor compared to modern firearms currently made in Germany, Sweden, or the U.S.

The main reason they are valuable, btw, is because laws in most states have made it illegal to own one. Before this banning firearms nonsese started, about 20-25 years ago, you could buy one if you wanted. Few people did, because there were better alternatives at the time.

[DizBukHaPeter]

I wouldnt stereotype the ak as a poor mans weapon. Newer rifles are produced with closer tolerances, synthetic furniture, and the ability to take optical sights. Modern ak have typical accuracy of sub 2 moa which is pretty good for a service rifle while maintaining an unparelled level of reliability. You are right that there are bad examples of the weapons out there, but the newer rifles are on the same level as other comparable weapons.

You are right that the popularity of the ak in america has boomed due to the 1994 assault weapon ban, but so did all other military rifles. So called "black rifles" were not popular before the ban.

Its interesting to note that the crop of m16's from POF, LWRC, Colt, Heckler & Koch, and Bushmaster are developing gas pistons for the m16 to cure its notorious reliability problems. The same system that the ak has had since conception.

[Plekto]

Yes, it is interesting how the M16 is evolving to match what has become a sort of de-facto industry standard. Of course, the design itself is getting to be outdated. It was a compromise to begin with, and doesn't work as well in an urban environment as it should.

I always find it interesting that the perfect round(or about as close as it gets)time ago, but since it isn't an "American" design, we spend decades trying to reinvent the wheel.(the round in question is the 6.5x55 Mauser) The 6.5x50 Arisaka is very similar, but, again, that's Japanese and we can't have that for our forces... Heh. Minor pet peeve of mine how we still are stuck in 1950s thinking about arming our military. We are part of NATO and allied with Japan and yet we won't make use of their research because of stubborn pride.(or at least the beancounters in Washington won't)

[Mechs]

Yes, it is interesting how the M16 is evolving to match what has become a sort of de-facto industry standard. Of course, the design itself is getting to be outdated. It was a compromise to begin with, and doesn't work as well in an urban environment as it should.

I always find it interesting that the perfect round(or about as close as it gets)time ago, but since it isn't an "American" design, we spend decades trying to reinvent the wheel.(the round in question is the 6.5x55 Mauser) The 6.5x50 Arisaka is very similar, but, again, that's Japanese and we can't have that for our forces... Heh. Minor pet peeve of mine how we still are stuck in 1950s thinking about arming our military. We are part of NATO and allied with Japan and yet we won't make use of their research because of stubborn pride.(or at least the beancounters in Washington won't)

The M-16/M4 familiy of weapons is a showing it's age, but it's still a fine weapon. Whats this crap about not working well in urban environments? Every combat unit shipping to Iraq has M-4s, and some M-16A4s. The weapon will rarely let you down if you clean it like you should. The weapon is over due to be replaced, but I don't mind still using it. It's simple, lightweight, and lethal out to 800 meters. Thats all that matters.

[DizBukHaPeter]

The m16 system is here to stay for many more decades. Its the most versatile infantry rifle ever to be conceived. You have literally thousands of different configurations for the rifle from pistol to sniper rifle, and many different rounds it can fire.

I dont think it needs to be replaced, the unreliablity problems of the m16 are overexaggerated and a myth. In recent trials the army found the m4 to have 1% more failures than the SCAR, HK416, or the XM8. Thats doesnt convince me that we need to replace rifles. Also if you arent impressed be the current ss109 5.56 ammunition and think we need something bigger, look up Black Hills mk 262 mod 0 ammunition tipped with 77 grain Sierra Matchkings, youll be impressed.

With the correct upgrades, the M16 can stay relevent. There are many companies which i named in my previous post, that are working on product improvements for the m16 family. I dont think we have a 50's mindset in arming our soldiers. If anything we are leading the world in terms of small arms and weapons procurement.