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羽之助
12-21-2007, 05:11 AM
Has anyone else heard about this? I'm waiting for it to be picked up by the BBC or some other reputable news site until I believe it, but if it's true, wow.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Descendants_of_Sitting_Bull_Crazy_Horse_1220.html

Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US
Agence France-Presse
Published: Thursday December 20, 2007

The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States, leaders said Wednesday.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us," long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means told a handful of reporters and a delegation from the Bolivian embassy, gathered in a church in a run-down neighborhood of Washington for a news conference.

A delegation of Lakota leaders delivered a message to the State Department on Monday, announcing they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the United States, some of them more than 150 years old.

They also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and will continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months, they told the news conference.

Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free -- provided residents renounce their US citizenship, Means said.

The treaties signed with the United States are merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists say on their website.

The treaties have been "repeatedly violated in order to steal our culture, our land and our ability to maintain our way of life," the reborn freedom movement says.

Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.

"This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution," which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

"It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent," said Means.

The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence -- an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row," Means said.

One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples -- despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

"We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children," Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

The US "annexation" of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people," said Means.

Oppression at the hands of the US government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies -- less than 44 years -- in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 percent above the norm for the United States; infant mortality is five times higher than the US average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

"Our people want to live, not just survive or crawl and be mascots," said Young.

"We are not trying to embarrass the United States. We are here to continue the struggle for our children and grandchildren," she said, predicting that the battle would not be won in her lifetime.

Chuckles
12-21-2007, 05:17 AM
Heard about it yesterday, been waiting for some major news outlets to pick it up as well. I'm sure that it happened, really, I'm just not sure how much weight it has. If it was just Means that is behind it, then the entire thing has very little credibility. His biggest claim with the tribe is that he was popular there at one time and lost an election... Not exactly someone I would think is in a position to pull this kind of crap.

The biggest thing I want cleared up are who is behind it, exactly. In some articles they say "activists", and thinking that activists have any say in anything is pointless... however, other articles have used words that made it seem more like something the higher-ups in the tribe are doing, which would make it much more credible. We need to know if this is sanctioned by their government before there are any worries of potential ramifications of the act.

Kusoyaro
12-21-2007, 05:20 AM
Reminds me of the ipperwash/caledonia incident

Mechs
12-21-2007, 05:29 AM
Wow...that is just random as hell. I wonder where this will lead?

Citizen
12-21-2007, 05:40 AM
I wonder where this will lead?

Probably nowhere.

Chuckles
12-21-2007, 05:45 AM
What he said ^

Mechs
12-21-2007, 05:53 AM
Probably nowhere.

Awww....I was looking forward to a conflict. I brought popcorn and everything :gloomy:.

Citizen
12-21-2007, 05:57 AM
Go knock an injun over the head yourself if you want a conflict. :watson:

I'm sure you'll be fine.

Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
12-21-2007, 06:05 AM
I wonder how the Federal Government is going to respond to this.

Fermented Yeast Paste
12-21-2007, 06:06 AM
Just to inform you guys, Russell Means barely has any followers and is not even an elected member of the Tribal Council. As a friend said, it'd be the equivalent of Mike Gravel stating Alaska was going to secede. This isn't going anywhere, and it's not a very big deal, except for laughs.

Chuckles
12-21-2007, 06:24 AM
Indeed :p

But as some articles state, this was delivered by a group of tribal leaders... I'd very much like to know who these people were before I completely ruled it out. ATM though, it's just looking like some random rabble-rousing.

Jetsetlemming
12-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Lol "steal our culture". Ha ha, got your beads and feathers!

There have been a number of attempts to totally leave the US, and I never get why. In their current states the tribes pretty much get all the benefits of being sovereign, with the bonus of being part of the country and having the federal government tend to kiss their ass at the drop of a hat.

Beowulf
12-21-2007, 01:45 PM
There have been a number of attempts to totally leave the US, and I never get why. In their current states the tribes pretty much get all the benefits of being sovereign, with the bonus of being part of the country and having the federal government tend to kiss their ass at the drop of a hat.
You're right! I'm so sick of these damn injuns bitching all the time.
"You committed widespread genocide against our people and culture!"
"We have some of the highest alcoholism and depression rates on the continent!"
"We want electricity!"
"Can we please get help so we can get elevated above 3rd world nation status?!?"

Jetsetlemming
12-21-2007, 02:19 PM
None of those statements match the modern day state of things.
Well, except the alcoholism and depression. But that's not something you can blame on the US. There's nothing keeping them on the reservation, my grandparents left just fine.

Buckwheat
12-21-2007, 02:55 PM
I know exactly how this will go.

Aide: Mr. President, the Lakotas want to secede from the US.
Bush: North AND South Lakota?!?!

Plekto
12-21-2007, 03:40 PM
I'm waiting for the ATF to come in and arrest him.

YOu know it's going to take at least 10,000 soldiers, a slew of aircraft and munitions, and several nukes for them to actually make this work.

Oh, wait... yeah, they have none of this. Expect to get ruthlessly crushed the second they fail to pay taxes or break any U.S. laws.

They could have at least waited until Edwards/Obama was elected.(most likely pairing as the DNC won't nominate a woman or a muslim, short of the end of the world, currently)

Chris
12-21-2007, 04:53 PM
You're right! I'm so sick of these damn injuns bitching all the time.
"You committed widespread genocide against our people and culture!"
"We have some of the highest alcoholism and depression rates on the continent!"
"We want electricity!"
"Can we please get help so we can get elevated above 3rd world nation status?!?"


You're right on the genocide. But we've given them a huge amount of support in modern times. They've gotten quite a bit of help.

Trump
12-21-2007, 05:06 PM
So this is supposed to help their unemployment situation? Umm... did they create jobs out of thin air or something?

stsparky
12-21-2007, 05:14 PM
Symbolic posturing. The below (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_and_the_Redskins) will tell you what you need to know about this action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people#Independence_movement):

Guess which cover I want!

http://www.bkkbooks.com/image/Flashman-red-skin-first.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C92Q6P9PL._SS500_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51P64QNVMWL._SS500_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QTPC88XAL._SS500_.jpg

Fermented Yeast Paste
12-21-2007, 05:19 PM
I'm waiting for the ATF to come in and arrest him.

YOu know it's going to take at least 10,000 soldiers, a slew of aircraft and munitions, and several nukes for them to actually make this work.

Oh, wait... yeah, they have none of this. Expect to get ruthlessly crushed the second they fail to pay taxes or break any U.S. laws.

They could have at least waited until Edwards/Obama was elected.(most likely pairing as the DNC won't nominate a woman or a muslim, short of the end of the world, currently)

Obama isn't Muslim.

Sock Full of Boiled Dimes
12-21-2007, 05:28 PM
No, but they think he is because his last name sounds Middle Eastern.

You know how many arguments I got into with people trying to convince them that the man is actually Christian (supposedly).

Beowulf
12-21-2007, 08:17 PM
Anyone who thinks my statements aren't true hasn't been to an indian reservation. Some of these tribes live in quite literal 3rd world conditions.

Duke Luke of Juke
12-21-2007, 11:35 PM
I don't quite know how to feel about this, so I'll probably just remain apathetic.

羽之助
12-22-2007, 03:47 AM
So this is supposed to help their unemployment situation? Umm... did they create jobs out of thin air or something?

It's called "bureaucracy".

Those Flashman covers aren't as hot as the Asia ones, I'm afraid.

Plekto
12-22-2007, 05:17 AM
Yes, I know that. I was making a comment about how the DNC and their racist "good ol boys'" end up thinking. (sexist is a given)

My father who is a pretty bright man - a college professor, no less. He was saying to me this last weekend "so what's his middle name?" And he wouldn't let it go, either. He doesn't care - if his father or mother or uncle was from anyplace in the middle east, well, he's as good as got a bomb strapped to his chest and will sell out Israel as soon as he can.

Welcome to how ultra-conservative Amercia thinks. Sigh.

Yes, I was suitably appalled at his biggotted behavior. Not that he's acted like that ever before, either, which made it all the more upsetting. Yet, that's how a lot of people think about Hillary and Obama. And why the DNC won't wote for them when it comes to the actual vote, even if they ahve by far the most votes in the state primaries.

Buckwheat
12-22-2007, 05:30 AM
Obama isn't Muslim.

The only prominent Muslim in our government that I know of is Rep. Keith Maurice Ellison of MN. He caused a bit of a stir by swearing in on a Quran early this year but that's largely been forgotten by now.