"Cultural Differences"

[Beebs]

Just finished reading the latest editorial, "Cutural Differences" and I 100% agree on the Japanese view of being overweight and the expression thereof.

Not two days ago, I was in my staff room with another teacher preparing for the next lesson. It was late at night and my "Friday" so my mind was pretty much on autopilot while I dreamed of the sweet, sweet train ride home. One of our more cheerful Japanese staff members walks in the room carrying a big bag of McDonalds. She's always very nice to the teachers and I've never seen her not smiling ear-to-ear. "Burekku?" I muttered. She tosses me a quick, "Hai" and starts to dive into her fries and burger. I go back to the stack of files in front of me, happy that I fulfilled my daily requirement of Japanese conversation.

Then she said it. She said it at full speed Japanese so it took my brain a few seconds to translate it. Honest to God my mouth dropped all the way. "Sorry, could you say that again, I was busy." I said to her. "Ookiku nattane~. You became fat, ne?"

Quick background. I've lost over 23kg (50+lbs) since I've been in Japan (not being fed by an Italian mother day in day out has its advatanges). I come back from a 3-week vacation 10lbs the heavier, and NOW I've become fat?!

The other teacher, a woman, spun around and had a, "Oh sh*t girl, I don't think I can hold him back" look on her face. Adding to insult to injury she had been eating F#@$(*! McDonalds while she had said that to me. Granted she's one the many Japanese women that need some fat in their diets, but it just made the comment more blunt. In truth, the other teacher was more offeneded than I was. I have several older siblings so being teased and taking it lightly is an art I've mastered. I was more just shocked at being told so by this innocent, sweet looking Japanese staff member who could melt carbon fiber with her smile. The other teacher promptly gave her a quick cultural lesson on touchy subjects and she apologized profusely to me. I told her that it was nothing and that she was right so she didn't feel so bad.

On the train ride home, unable to concentrate enough to read my book, I pondered what had just happened an hour ago in the staff room. And I've been pondering what happened and what to do about it until a few minutes ago when I read Az's last editorial. My decision is made. Before I leave this country I'm going to call a Japanese woman on her latest gaining of poundage and get away with it. Not with spite or malice, just a kinda off-hand, "Wow, you've put on some weight?" remark that would get me crucified back in North America. I'm going to smile ear-ear when I say it too. It might just be the best (or last) day I've lived. :D

[erbiumfiber]

I agree. I was speaking in English with one of our secretaries and she said something to the effect of "well, I'm fat" just very matter-of-fact, like saying her eyes are brown or her hair is black. This from a culture that has a flushing sound on the toilets to mask the normal noises that come from using the bathroom. A culture that puts feminine hygiene products in brown paper bags. I just don't get it. Maybe because it can be seen it can also be discussed?

At my annual physical (the fun group physical you get to do with all your co-workers, more on this some other time), I'm sure my weight was a shock (it was to me- I actually gained weight in Japan my first year) but my BMI was fine so when I got my report card (yes, you get graded at your physical), I still managed to get an "A." Then I went right out and lost 7 kg. I said I was scared about my weight after the physical but the women I was with said I was thin (it's true, I looked pretty slender because the first place I gain weight is my chest). After I lost the weight no one said anything although my American coworker (male) said I looked like I had lost weight. I'm at the "after" weight for some of the Microdiet people and I'm probably taller than they are.

Anyone else go for a fun group physical with all their co-workers? It's some kind of freakin' law or something, we actually get work time off for it. Maybe it's because I'm some kind of more "permanent" employee? Anyway, your company gets the results, so they know just how fat you are...

[hanacker]

I have a question related to that article. Does Az not count as being a teacher at the school or was the guy really bigger than Az? Not that Az is fat, but he's definitely bigger than your average Japanese guy.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Okay, in Japan, all full-time employees are required by law to get a 健康診断【けんこうしんだん】 (health check) once a year. It checks the basics, and some not so basic things (intestinal x-rays if you're over 40, weehaw! BARIUM!). If you work under 40 hours/week (me and Az) the exam is voluntary, though some places will put more or less pressure on you to take it (I took it my first year, but didn't bother the second).

And yeah, you get graded. My BMI was ギリギリ (barely) in the 'ok' range. Then again I'm a relatively big guy and my body fat is in control, so that didn't really shock me.

In general in this country, you get derided for getting fat, but nobody comments when you get thinner. I have lost 10 kilos (22 pounds) since getting together with my girlfriend, and she constantly remarks that I could still use to lose some weight off the gut. Never does she comment that I've lost the 10 kilos. It's just part of the society. Stating that someone is fat isn't a matter of insult, it's a matter of health. For instance, if someone were to say, 'gee, you're looking pale' it would be equivalent to 'gee, you've put on some weight' which is how they see it.

C'est la vie and all that.

The results where I am are kept 100% private (and they're supposed to be). You get a sealed result and open it yourself. If that wasn't the case for you erbium, I highly suggest you get on someone's ass about that. That's a definite no-no.

[erbiumfiber]

Someone went over the results with me (alone) but someone else said that the employer has the right to see them as well. Maybe that person was wrong but somehow it wouldn't suprise me in this paternalistic society.

And everyone, even the people under 40, got to ride the bucking bronco of stomach x-ray (drink barium and soda and try not to belch or barf...). But I found out you can refuse an individual test so I'll give that a miss next time.

It's all actually a pretty good idea because who is going to take a day off work (in Japan!) and have a physical. It's just the fun of doing it with your coworkers and the cattle calls in between each test were special. That and the "do it yourself" pap smear. I won't go into the details, just imagine...

And since I don't have national health insurance my poor employer got billed for the whole thing.

And, back to the weight thing, there was definitely some talking-to about weight with some of the women because they seemed to be talking about it...I think they are held to a tighter range of "normal" weight than the bizarre gaijins with our bodies actually having more curves, etc.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Well, the employer always has to foot the whole thing I'm rather certain. I never had to show my national insurance card when I got checked. Secondly, your employer does NOT have the right to see your health results. I'm 99.9% sure about that. Don't show them next time, and if they ask to see it, tell them to show you the law that requires you to. Don't get bullied.

The 'do it yourself' papsmear sounds absolutely foul. Yikes.

The worst I had to deal with was when they were going to be taking my blood, and the nurses weren't wearing gloves. I said, 'Ummm... If you're going to take my blood, you're going to wear rubber gloves, okay honey? Think of it as if it were a prostate exam...'

She looked at me funny, and so she called over the head nurse, who tried to tell me that the nurse was perfectly healthy and clean, and so I didn't have to worry about her not wearing rubber gloves. I said, "Nuh-uh" to that, so they got a doctor, who told me that she'd wash her hands first, so I shouldn't worry. I continued being a stubborn prick about my health, and so they brought over the head doctor, who tried for a whopping 10 minutes to explain that the nurse was perfectly healthy, that she would wash her hands, and guldurnit, that would be enough! Nobody else has a problem with it after all claimed she...

Eventually after much jousting they found a pair of rubber gloves (which they didn't have lying around -- a crew of doctors and nurses with no latex gloves? What the fuck? It's the #1 thing to carry for first responders or anyone who knows first aid for crissakes), and the nurse confided in me while drawing about 19 pints of my blood that she thought it was a good idea that they should wear gloves.

WELL THANKS! thought I.

Cracked out Japanese medicine. Fuckin' Hell.

[nice gaijin]

come to think of it my gf is always pointing out that I'm getting a 'stupie belly' (named for my obese cat)... and never commented on the fact that I lost almost 5 kilos during my month in Japan. I figured she just liked to tease me, interesting to see there's a deeper, more culturally ingrained cause behind it...

[megaversal]

I must be the only person who's experienced the opposite. A friend of mine (disclaimer: while Japanese and living in Japan, she did spend a number of years around Britain and speaks perfect English) was commenting that she needed to gain some weight because she's so rail thin and then mentioned how skinny I was too. Never heard someone comment on someone else being too big either.

[Dana]

I get told pretty often that I am "smart" (which I guess means slim for some odd reason?!). I also have been told that I look like I have lost weight, but this is always in an approving voice which leads me to wonder whether they thought I was fat when I first got here. When I went home for summer break all my family and friends were like "Damn you not eating over there or what?!"

One thing I have noticed that seems to be a more private issue is age, especially among women. One of my english teachers was doing this introducing people lesson and she interviewed a bunch of the teachers. One of the questions was 'How old are you?' Unfailingly, all the men answered truthfully whether they were 24 or 54, but NONE of the women (except me) answered. They all put "Older than 20," even if they are like 30 years older than 20. Even the teacher who did this lesson wouldn't answer and she is 26!! What the hell is up with that?

Finally, about the whole "girls when you grow up take good care of your husbands," thing, this mentality is pretty gross to me and one of the major turn-offs for me in Japan. The dude who sits next to me is constantly complaining to me about how he has to get up at 530am every morning to get his daughters ready for school because his wife works far away. Ok... wtf? School here doesn't start till 830 and he lives in town! Why in the blue hell is he getting up that early?! I am sure he would get up that early even if his wife was a stay-at-home mom, but he is blaming her working for his hard schedule. This is the same guy who constantly asks me how i can get married if i am in Japan. I want to slap him several times a day >.<

[Pierrot le Fou]

Smart is British slang for slim.

And there's an expression in Japan, "You can't sell a Christmas Cake after the 25th." It means if you're over 25, you can't get married. My girlfriend's former roomate just broke up with her boyfriend because his mother told him (he's 24) that she is too old for him, since he can't get married to her soon enough, and she'll be too old to be a 'proper' wife.

[kyaa the catlord]

Mmmm, slightly stale Christmas Cake is still yummy. I'll take two.

[Ziellos.ein]

man the longer i read on this site the more discusted i am with japan

[Ichisan]

Sorry, smart is not British slang for slim. The British word for slim would be 'slim'. :D

Smart is British for well-dressed - you might say sharply dressed. Sort of the opposite of casual. Not used to mean clever.

While I'm on the subject, the British for scarf is not 'muffler' but is in fact 'scarf', amazingly enough.

It's funny to find the Japanese, normally so polite and reserved, are exactly the same as the rough and rude Koreans when it comes to pointing out your deficiencies in the weight department. Koreans give you their opinion of your looks rather freely too, whether good or bad.

[EIJI]

Smart is Japanese word for slim :)
It's Japanese-English.

[Pierrot le Fou]

We're not talking about today's slang. We're talking about slang from when the word was adopted into Japanese, which would probably be about 130-140 years ago...

[Beebs]

I had a similar experience with Japanese indiscreetness a while back. I was at a Japanese friend's house for dinner this one time. Her best friend shows up, we all eat and afterwards start chatting. We get on the subject of dating and the best friend pipes up:

"I have not had sex with my husband in three years." :eek:

Not only am I amazed she's telling me this after only meeting her for the second time, she also is drop-dead gorgeous. Her husband must have one helluva mistress to pass that meal up.

Is she just a little looney, or is this kinda normal? I must say that's been the first and only time a Japanese woman has been THAT upfront with me after knowing her for a total of maybe four hours.

[Loc]

Pretty funny editorial, weird you can say things like that to Japanese women, I want to try it out >_<;
So when's the book out? :P

[decswxaqz]

A Japanese girl I played with online said that she had to go because of her period =/
Seems that Japanese (women?) are more open about that sort of thing.
I wouldn't imagine any of my other female friends saying that.

[PopCulturePooka]

"I have not had sex with my husband in three years." :eek:

Not only am I amazed she's telling me this after only meeting her for the second time, she also is drop-dead gorgeous. Her husband must have one helluva mistress to pass that meal up.

Is she just a little looney, or is this kinda normal? I must say that's been the first and only time a Japanese woman has been THAT upfront with me after knowing her for a total of maybe four hours.
Feh sounds like a typical limp dicked Japanese husband. She was probably trying to hit on you!! woo!

[Kaji]

Well, keep in mind that this is a culture where public baths are still within the norm. From what I've seen, the Japanese tend to be rather open about bodily matters in general. Probably goes back to what someone was saying above about it being a matter of health. Almost makes sense in a way, can't force a dead man to be polite, so health trumps politeness...hehehe...

[PopCulturePooka]

I was on a date with a girl one time, first date, and she starts talking about her period. Later that date she starts asking me if I like going down on girls. Odd.


Another case of bluntness. At work was a teacher, Megan. Aussie girl, 26, and while not a stone godess she was definately attractive. My best friend in Japan.

So I have a class one day with three middle aged housewives. At the beginning of the lesson I had mentioned Megan, who had actually left my brnach some weeks before. One of the housewives asks how Megan is. I say she was good and actually has a new boyfriend. A really popular Japanese guy.

One of the students starts laughing her head off. I ask the old bitch whats so funny. Still laughing she comes out with this gem:
"Haha I don't believe Megan has a boyfriend because she is so ugly".

After giving the death stare to end all death stares, we start the lesson. I went out of the way to give her the toughest, most difficult lesson she had ever done. She wasn't laughing 45 minutes later.

[hapacheese]

I've had a coworker tell me he's a bit "hemorrhoid-ish" before. Not the most pleasant way to start a conversation.

[PopCulturePooka]

I had another student tell me every lesson she had a colostomy back.

One guy told me that he had to have a prostate exam. In a class. Who then wanted me to explain to them what a Prostate exam was.

[Godon]

Lol, nice. Did you elaborate?

[Pierrot le Fou]

God, Nova sounds like a treat.

Beebs, she was saying 'please take me now you stud, I haven't been laid right in a long time.' And if she really was that gorgeous, you just had no-strings attached sex with a gorgeous woman. How could you pass that up?!

As far as Megan, you shouldn't have been rough on the woman, there's a chance the student didn't realize how harsh that statement is. I've waded knee-deep in shit because I didn't realize how rude my Japanese was at the time too, and it wasn't intentional.

Finally, most women don't talk about their periods openly with men. At all.

My girlfriend was absolutely horrified when I first pointed out that I knew when she was out-of-commission because I could keep track of lunar cycles (god forbid!). She was embarrassed. Other women I've, uh, met, uh... Well, confirm that. Unless there was a situation in which it would be of immediate concern, they wouldn't tell me.

[Azrael]

I have a question related to that article. Does Az not count as being a teacher at the school or was the guy really bigger than Az? Not that Az is fat, but he's definitely bigger than your average Japanese guy.
Noisy Gentleman has a good, developed beer belly. Again, I wouldn't even call him fat, he just has a middle-aged man gut. I could stand to lose a few gut pounds myself, sure, but I don't really have a beer belly or anything like that. I'm not that huge. =/

On women hitting you with weird stuff...

One of my friends is in her 30's, and married. We were in a book store, and I was looking at a magazine that supposedly pointed out all the hot spots in Kansai. Of course, there was like a 100 page insert in the book devoted to love hotels. "Oh, you can take a girl there!" She said. This was when I was still failing at dating, so I just kind of weakly laughed and made a joke about my incompetence. She perked up then said "Oh, I know! I'll give you some viper's juice! Do you know? Vipers can supposedly make love for 24 hours. So Japanese people believe that if we drink their juice, we can have very strong sex power. ...My father gave me a lot of viper juice to give to my husband, but I don't need it. So please, you can have it!"

I told her my problem wasn't what to do once in the bedroom (that's quite fine, thank you very much) but how to get a girl there. But this disturbed me on a few levels.

1. I have a married woman trying to help my sex life.
2. This woman's father gave her juice to pass along to her husband so he can fuck her raw. "Aw sweetie, is he getting you off? Not satisfied? Here, give him this!"
3. She more or less just admitted to having no sex life with her husband. They've only been married for like a year or two.

Another time, I was on the train with a girl. Trains can either be the liveliest places in Japan, or the quietest. This time, it was the latter.

We'd been talking, in Japanese, and I said something about having eaten a lot of meat recently. She turns to me, and in Japanese (I reiterate this so you understand that everyone knows what she's saying) she asks me "How's your shit? Are you constipated? Is it coming out allright? Not too hard?"

This same girl will also freely talk about her period in public.

[I ARE 1031]

1. I have a married woman trying to help my sex life.
2. This woman's father gave her juice to pass along to her husband so he can fuck her raw. "Aw sweetie, is he getting you off? Not satisfied? Here, give him this!"
3. She more or less just admitted to having no sex life with her husband. They've only been married for like a year or two.

1. So?
2. And?
3. Whaeva...

;)

[Godon]

Haha, wow. I would at that point be just staring at her. "My shit... is shit...?"

I have had plenty of girls talk to me about their periods in public though. But.. nobody has ever asked me about the texture of my shit. xD

[Beebs]

Beebs, she was saying 'please take me now you stud, I haven't been laid right in a long time.' And if she really was that gorgeous, you just had no-strings attached sex with a gorgeous woman. How could you pass that up?!Damn my conscience! *shakes fists at the ceiling fan*

I have had plenty of girls talk to me about their periods in public though. But.. nobody has ever asked me about the texture of my shit. xDI'll also confirm the period talk. Now, if I see a Japanese woman cringe a bit while holding her "around-the-belt-line" area, I just say, "Yeah, I'm hungry too!" and leave the room.

[Pierrot le Fou]

My girlfriend never, ever, EVER speaks of her period to me unless it is of critical importance at the moment. Though she definitely does comment on the use of the porcelain throne.

[Godon]

I'll also confirm the period talk. Now, if I see a Japanese woman cringe a bit while holding her "around-the-belt-line" area, I just say, "Yeah, I'm hungry too!" and leave the room.


Well put. I'll remember to do that if it happens.

[PopCulturePooka]

As far as Megan, you shouldn't have been rough on the woman, there's a chance the student didn't realize how harsh that statement is. I've waded knee-deep in shit because I didn't realize how rude my Japanese was at the time too, and it wasn't intentional.

I'd believe that, except...
The women had made other blunt comments before about people with little regard for feelings. She also laughed, somewhat maliciously, before she said it.

Anyway I told some other teachers about her penchant for... being so blunt. So we decided to do a lesson about tact with her one time. As a warm up a male teacher took a photo of a rather overweight girl in. Told the student that said girl was his fiancee and they are getting married. The student laughed and said 'But she is so fat. Its terrible!'.

[Kamakiri]

Wow - i am so surprised at how the Japanese women you know act!! I have had many Japanese female friends (I am a girl btw) in both America and Japan and they would never, EVER tell me anything like that. they also said that i as an american was "too open and talked about too many private things," like when i would make jokes about sex (hey - that's just what i do).

one time at school one of our friends (that worked in the cafeteria) told my japanese friend that he put "his special sauce" on her food (it was his own mixture of teriyaki and mayo or something) and when we sat down i couldn't stop laughing. when they picked up on it they told me i was being disgusting, and they said i was acting like a child.

for comparisons in my experience:
after being friends with my japanese roommate for 1.5 years she finally said something to me about sex...i had been talking about it 2 months after we met.
on the period and bathroom thing - i have never heard anything from any japanese person i have met, but maybe when they get to be older they're more open? i only hung out with college students, so maybe they are more reserved?
i am very surprised about the number of people that said 'no girls ever talk about their periods.' are you just talking about japanese girls? i have been asked many, many times by other guys to explain certain things about a girl's cycle because they were curious, so i am surprised that no one here has heard other girls talk about it. especially girlfriends - how else can you explain why you can't have sex for a week?!?

edit: on the overweight issue - when i got to japan a friend i had just met commented how i was only eating 2 riceballs for lunch, and wouldn't i still be hungry? i kinda raised my eyebrows and she said "well, you're an american, and americans are all fat and eat too much, so i'm so surprised that you're only eating that! surely you will want more!" i thanked her for making me more selfconscious during my first week in japan than i already was and put them away. after that i made sure to eat less than her whenever we went out so i wouldn't seem like a "fat american".

[hapamama]

My girlfriend never, ever, EVER speaks of her period to me unless it is of critical importance at the moment. Though she definitely does comment on the use of the porcelain throne.

I've been married for 8 years, and what I say to my husband about those topics range along the lines of "my period is here", "please bring me a pad" and "sorry I stank up the bathroom".

Now talking about our kids bowel movements is a completely different story. Did you know that things with blue food dye make for neon green poop, or that when a toddler eats corn, it comes out whole on the other end? :eek:

[B MacD]

A random smattering of student comments, in reply to my, "How are you today?"

Student A: "Bad. I have terrible cramps. My period." (Keep in mind, this was my FIRST lesson with the girl. I wanted to reply, "Don't beat around the bush..tell me how you really feel!")

Student B: "I'm constipated."

Student C: (my personal favorite) "I have..(searches for the word)..brown water." Yikes.

All of these comments were made in group classes, 3-4 students. I was like, "..ok. Thanks for sharing that."

B

[megaversal]

Now talking about our kids bowel movements is a completely different story. Did you know that things with blue food dye make for neon green poop, or that when a toddler eats corn, it comes out whole on the other end? :eek:

I do believe my mother will never forget my brother and I eating some sort of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle food (green, for those who don't know TMNT). What came out was about the same color as the food going in.

[KujiInRetsu]

i am very surprised about the number of people that said 'no girls ever talk about their periods.' are you just talking about japanese girls? i have been asked many, many times by other guys to explain certain things about a girl's cycle because they were curious, so i am surprised that no one here has heard other girls talk about it. especially girlfriends - how else can you explain why you can't have sex for a week?!?Gotta remember, no matter where you are, you've got different people there, no matter how homogeneous their culture is there. People will have their differences. People will be different even if they don't show it on the outside as much. That's what makes for hilarious situations like this and not-so hilarious situations like the stuff going on in the United States as of late. Katrina, Evolution, and the Bush Administration; just as examples that highlight (not-so-good) divisions between people. Also, I myself have heard girls more than willing to talk about their cramps and periods, stuff that had me cringing and my eyes darting around for the nearest exit.

[hanacker]

I was with my girlfriend at a train station in Japan and somehow her period came up. For some reason we were standing kind of far apart so we were talking pretty loudly. I later found out she was mad at me and thought it was because I was talking about her period so loudly in public. But of course it had nothing to do with that since talking about that isn't a big deal.

[bloop]

"well, you're an american, and americans are all fat and eat too much, so i'm so surprised that you're only eating that! surely you will want more!"

I hated those assumptions.... and the assumptions that Americans only eat pizza or hamburgers and fries.

I'm convinced that part of the weight thing in Japan is based on appearance. There are health concerns with being underweight too, especially in women (osteoporosis, heart problems, and *cough*infertility*cough*) but they never mention THAT. The trend in Japan is the overall women's BMI is decreasing while men's is increasing, but most of the diet commercials I saw were directed at women.

It was one of the cultural differences that really struck me.... that people will happily talk openly about the size of people's breasts, waist, or penis or in details about bowel movements but things like feelings are completely off-limits.

[CNagy]

Another time, I was on the train with a girl. Trains can either be the liveliest places in Japan, or the quietest. This time, it was the latter.

We'd been talking, in Japanese, and I said something about having eaten a lot of meat recently. She turns to me, and in Japanese (I reiterate this so you understand that everyone knows what she's saying) she asks me "How's your shit? Are you constipated? Is it coming out allright? Not too hard?"

This same girl will also freely talk about her period in public.
I just had a thought and found it rather amusing. Is it possible you treaded unintentionally into suggestive japanese phrasing? "I've been eating alot of meat lately" could have been some sort of code for some sort of physical malady. She could think that you, literally, started that shit.