The Writer's Strike [Archive] - Outpost Nine Forums

ellie

11-13-2007, 01:32 AM

I'm sure most of you have heard by now about the Writer's Guild strike. Basically, this means that writers who are in the guild cannot write until the strike is over. . .thus, after everything films that has already been written, we will be stuck in rerun city for a long, long time.

Read more about the strike here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119482950368089597.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The reason I am interested in this so much is because my sister is a part of the writer's guild (she writes for children's animation primarily, but is trying to break into prime-time).

A few of the reasons the writers are on strike:

* Digital rights. Many networks now offer the opportunity for viewers to watch episodes of the current season in free, streaming video on their websites. However, the writers don't make any money from this!
* DVD residuals. Writers currently make FOUR CENTS per DVD. So when you buy Family Guy on DVD, the writers only get $0.04. The writer's want this doubled to 8 cents. Yes this is a large PERCENTAGE increase, but the actual money is not that much at all.

What do you all think about the writer's strike? Do you think they are justified in wanting, mainly, digital rights? How will your own personal television viewing be affected by this strike (most prime-time television shows are only written for a few episodes into the future, so I am sad that I probably only have a few episodes of HOUSE and GREYS ANATOMY left to watch)?

Jetsetlemming

11-13-2007, 01:40 AM

* Digital rights. Many networks now offer the opportunity for viewers to watch episodes of the current season in free, streaming video on their websites. However, the writers don't make any money from this!
They're gaining indirect profits by increased product awareness thus higher ratings. They can suck it up and quit bitching. Nobody is making direct money from a FREE SERVICE, obviously.

Digital Masta

11-13-2007, 01:44 AM

They're gaining indirect profits by increased product awareness thus higher ratings. They can suck it up and quit bitching. Nobody is making direct money from a FREE SERVICE, obviously.

It's not just that, you can download shows off iTunes apparently. They don't get money from that either.

They are also looking ahead, you don't think the production companies and TV Networks will eventually make you pay for this stuff?

(and people will pay)

Saitou Hajime

11-13-2007, 01:51 AM

People can say, "Quit whining," all they want to, but this strike would help the writer's that don't make as much money as those that work on high-profile shows and movies, and I think that the major driving force of this strike was from them. Four cents per DVD doesn't sound like much, but whoever wrote the Transformers movie made $332,000 because of it. He certainly doesn't need that extra eight cents, but what about writers that work on projects that don't make as much. Sure, "Make a more compelling story," is actually a valid argument there, and they're getting paid for what they put out, but a lot of what they do can be limited by other factors than just their imaginations.

Basically, I can understand the urge to strike that writers of average movies and shows feel, especially when they aren't guaranteed work to begin with, but the writers of high-profile, immensely popular series don't need that extra money nearly as much as the others do.

The last strike took place in 1988, and went on for twenty-two weeks. I hope this one ends a lot sooner, as right now Heroes might have a season finale on December 3rd, Lost will only have eleven episodes filmed and might not start until they're all done, and 24 won't start airing until the season is completed. I'll definitely miss my fall and winter shows.

If the strike does last until at least June of next year, the Directors' and Actors' guild may take part in a three-way strike, which would almost guarantee each group what they want.

ellie

11-13-2007, 02:11 AM

They're gaining indirect profits by increased product awareness thus higher ratings. They can suck it up and quit bitching. Nobody is making direct money from a FREE SERVICE, obviously.

The networks ARE making money from this "free service". You see all those ads on network's websites? Yeah, those are benefiting the networks, but the money isn't going to the writers.

Also, technology and entertainment media is growing at a rapid rate, but the pay isn't growing in the same way.

Saitou: Exactly, what you said about writer's of average things. My sister writes for children's programming, and makes about the same amount that a school teacher makes yearly. Not a ton of money. When her work appears online, she isn't paid for it. Being paid for digital media is a huge part of the writer's strike and is going to be one of the hardest things (in my opinion) to figure out how to fix.

Angelyne

11-13-2007, 02:21 AM

They're screwing themselves over. TV viewership has been going down for years, and if there is long wait for new episodes or seasons of popular shows, then there might not be much of an audience left at the end of the strike.

Personally, I've got a large backlog of downloaded TV shows and movie DVDs to catch up on. I'm sure that will be more entertaining than whatever reruns or shitty reality shows the networks will come up with when they run of out of fresh programming.

ak24

11-13-2007, 02:22 AM

As a future WGA member and currently an aspiring writer in college, I believe in this strike.

But, I'm sad the shows I watch won't be airing because of this :(

Jetsetlemming

11-13-2007, 02:29 AM

The networks ARE making money from this "free service". You see all those ads on network's websites? Yeah, those are benefiting the networks, but the money isn't going to the writers.

Also, technology and entertainment media is growing at a rapid rate, but the pay isn't growing in the same way.
The money from those ads are almost certainly going to bandwidth for the website first and foremost. A banner ad on a website brings in far less revenue than a television commercial. The videos on the websites are primarily themselves an advertisement to get viewers of the program, rather than a direct source of profits for the channel.

stsparky

11-13-2007, 02:58 AM

Pay the writers!

An old clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE) that is pertinent as Harlan was once President of the Writer's Guild.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE <-- URL

Producers are allowing this strike over costs that they could recoup easily especially with better PR. This strike will hurt the other industries that depend on the reliable flow of scripted entertainment.

blank slate

11-13-2007, 02:59 AM

The_Penguin

11-13-2007, 03:17 AM

It's not just that, you can download shows off iTunes apparently. They don't get money from that either.
Ya, you didn't even begin to disprove him. If anything, you've strengthened his argument.
They are also looking ahead, you don't think the production companies and TV Networks will eventually make you pay for this stuff?

(and people will pay)
Then the guild would become a valid point and something that the guild can bring up.

Azrael

11-13-2007, 03:22 AM

24 has been shelved for the season. :(

Saitou Hajime

11-13-2007, 03:24 AM

Just delayed, sweet prince.

Swede

11-13-2007, 04:38 AM

My favorite shows The Daily Show and Colbert Report have been hit hard. I hope this is solved soon, as I need me some laughs before going to bed. I think that they should make cash off of whatever revenues are brought in from their work, but it might be unreasonable to ask for cash for stuff that is given away for free on iTunes or other download services.

Errr.... stuff isn't given away for free on itunes. It costs money.

From everything I've heard, its not that writers are trying to make more money, they are just trying to get the money they've been making since the work is so inconsistent, they have to live off of those residuals when they are in between paychecks.

They got fucked over when VHS came out, they don't really get a whole lot with their 4 cents on DVDs, and you know damn well pretty soon everything is going to be available in a digital format, which takes away from the sales of other forms of media. They're basically just trying to keep making what they have been.

And as I believe someone else said, this is really for the benefit of those writers who aren't the mega-successful ones, but everyone is striking because the union was what helped them when they were starting off...:box:

Decade

11-13-2007, 04:57 AM

Lost and 24 might not see action again until 2009

2000 FUCKING 9

ZaichikArky

11-13-2007, 05:07 AM

Hm just about everything has been shelved for the season. Anyway, I've been reading up on it a lot because I'm... really into my Amerikan shows, so it sucks a lot. I hope it is resolved soon. It's a cutthroat business where everyone involved wants their slice of the pie. Unfortunately, the writers have been getting only a sliver and they want their deserved portion. I stand by them, but i don't stand by this "don't download episodes" thing they're pushing.

Anyway, that's all I have to say for now : ).

Digital Masta

11-13-2007, 07:55 AM

You know...this also screws movies for 2009, this includes Transformers II

:(

Overkongen

11-13-2007, 01:07 PM

I have very mixed feelings about this. There are some good shows out there, that I would definately like to see continue, but when I first read about this, they said that it was the writers from David Letterman and similar shows.

1: JESUS CHRIST? SOMEONE IS PAYED TO WRITE THAT SHIT?!?! NOOOOO!

2: I say they let Dave and Bald Guy improvise. Apart from the top-ten lists, which are mildly entertaining, it is impossible for the show to get much worse.

3: Cancelling Letterman seems like a very viable option.

ZaichikArky

11-13-2007, 01:24 PM

^ uh no, it's the writers from really good shows like Heroes too... Actually, MOST really good shows.

Saitou Hajime

11-13-2007, 01:26 PM

Every movie and every show. :(

I think there are something like 48 movies in production at the moment, and everything else missed the deadline.

Jetsetlemming

11-13-2007, 01:47 PM

I don't have a single show I watch that isn't a rerun on Adult Swim, or a news show on a cable news network, so...

ZaichikArky

11-13-2007, 02:00 PM

Let's hope they'll negotiate a fair agreement and not leave the fans in the dust. Not to mention the astronomical loss of capital it will be to not have any new shows/movies running for an extended period. Thankfully, we still DO have some leeways. We won't see an effect until several months down the road? I am optimistic it won't last that long.

rl*united

11-13-2007, 02:40 PM

I hope for the sake of humanity Hollywood dies this time. There are good shows like House MD though.....

ZaichikArky

11-13-2007, 03:02 PM

^ I like that post :p.

Also, what do you think is better than Hollywood? *curious*

Plekto

11-13-2007, 03:16 PM

Part of this also has me wondering... Exactly at what point would one or more major studios, given the readily apparent lack of talent in the industry, ust decide to tell the entire Guild to go do something painful to itself and fire all of its writers. Hire new ones under their own contracts.

If I was running a studio, I'd seriously be contemplating it. Because there isn't a shortage of peolpe who would work for half of what the current contracts stipulate. Probably have them lining up for miles to apply.

That said, I can sympathise. DVD sales are pretty crappy now other than the few major box offce hits.(and 3-5 episodes fit on a DVD - an entire season on a Blu-Ray(same payment)) Back in the 80s, 5 scents a DVD was good. With inflation, though, that 5 cents would have to nearly be doubled to retain the same purchasing power. So ten cents is really just keeping up with inflation! Yes, the studios are asses and the writers deserve more. But they might find a very bad surprize if they push too hard, because there are many hungry people willing to work for less.

In the meantime, get over to YouTube and watch Little Mosque on the Prairie. While we are having huge problems, the CBC has a few very watchable shows that are still rolling along. Also, the BBC sitll is churning out Dr. Who., and there's always a *few* good shows from Japan.

stsparky

11-13-2007, 03:54 PM

Part of this also has me wondering... Exactly at what point would one or more major studios, given the readily apparent lack of talent in the industry, ust decide to tell the entire Guild to go do something painful to itself and fire all of its writers. Hire new ones under their own contracts ...
Scab writers? That's bad on many levels. I guess you don't grok L.A. at all. It would deliver worse substandard shows.

From: Producers say don't blame us (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-strikeproducers13nov13,1,3507099.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true):

“ ... "Actually, the Writers Guild is negotiating against an entity that represents studios, networks and multinational conglomerates," said Linda Goldstein Knowlton, whose producing credits include the film "Whale Rider."

Julie Lynn, whose producing credits include "The Jane Austen Book Club," said: "In many of the publications we read and stations we listen to, it almost always is viewed as a dispute between the writers and producers. While the AMPTP has 'producers' in its name, that's not really what it is." ...

In their statement, the producers say that [B]"it serves the studios' interests to pretend to represent individual producers instead of corporate entities."

... It's the WGA versus the alliance. The writers versus the studios and networks," he said. ...”

Bear in mind it is the least powerful (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117975769.html?categoryid=2821&cs=1&nid=2562) in Hollywood who are hurting; And they're mostly low wage working class joes.

ak24

11-13-2007, 04:05 PM

Getting a little off-topic here.
We know that since there's a writer's strike... there won't be any new episodes coming out very soon. So, you might have all guessed that the networks are depending on reality shows and ordering MORE reality shows to save television. They're not ordering pilots for next season for the obvious reasons...

So, what do you think of this situation? Will you be watching "Reality" TV?

I certainly won't! I was never a fan of reality television.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117975715.html?categoryid=2522&cs=1

Hmm, I sound serious... lol

Shishio

11-13-2007, 04:22 PM

I fully support the strike, but then, as a (amateur) writer, I'm biased.

People can say, "Quit whining," all they want to, but this strike would help the writer's that don't make as much money as those that work on high-profile shows and movies, and I think that the major driving force of this strike was from them. Four cents per DVD doesn't sound like much, but whoever wrote the Transformers movie made $332,000 because of it.

Yes, but how long did it take to go from script to DVD? It's not like a writer can just bang out a script and collect a cheque for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Sure, "Make a more compelling story," is actually a valid argument there, and they're getting paid for what they put out, but a lot of what they do can be limited by other factors than just their imaginations.

Not just that, but quality does not equal success. Quality products certainly can be successful, but so can products that are utter shite. Success of any given thing is determined by a lot of factors outside of the writers' control. Marketing, and such.

Also, producers, networks, et al don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about quality. TV, as my comic book workshop instructor (who's worked in television) says, is about selling eyeballs. It's the same in any other medium. What the people in charge want are properties that make money. Nothing else matters. Your story, no matter how good it is, will be changed to conform to audience expectations. Writers have no say in this. If forty percent of what they write makes it into a show, they're pretty damn happy.

And actually, giving the writers more money is a good idea not only because they deserve it, but because it can lead naturally to higher quality products. (At least in circumstances where the benefit of them making more money isn't outweighed by other factors).

Back to my instructor, he put forth an interesting theory that makes a lot of sense to me: The quality of art in comics has dramatically increased in recent years. (Even if a lot of it has become sterile). He believes this is due to the fact that artists make much better money now. Back in the days of Jack Kirby, the rates for pages was so low that you had to do five a day just to survive, today, artists (if you work for one of the big publishers, at least) can make a decent living doing one page a day.

Obviously, the one page you take a day to draw is going to look a hell of a lot better than the five you draw in the same amount of time.

But then again, the TV industry is much more restrictive and demanding than the comic industry.

whispering

11-13-2007, 05:33 PM

I like how sXe Phil put it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnhfnxlDA7U

D-pad

01-08-2008, 11:27 AM

This is still going on and I was sorta curious if anyones opinions had changed in the span of time.

Kusoyaro

01-08-2008, 12:57 PM

Dun worry, I'm fiksing the riters strike rite nao

This shit is pissing me off. I understand very little about this and care even less; give me back my fucking shows you bastards

Jack...oh, Jack...

Plekto

01-08-2008, 05:36 PM

The wroters are up against a wall and while I completely support their struggle against the massively bloated and wealthy studios who toss them crumbs and laugh at them like something out of a Dicken's novel, the sad truth is that this isn't the 1990s.

Our government doesn't care. They won't come in to fix the mess.

The companies don't care. They have tons of scab and offshore workers lined up and willing to sign any deal that they offer. This is especially true for movies. The second you cross U.S. borders, all of the crap goes away. Most people will work for a good lunch to be an extra on a Movie these days.

The Companies also are moving entire TV show productions to Canada and getting writing done there as well. Or doing it in house. It's not a PHD thesis to write dialogue for a talk show, after all. Many saw this years ago, like Sci Fi channel, and moved to Canada back then.(note - they are rolling along without any problems, other than a couple of shows like BSG, which they folded into the Vancouver offices as far as writing and such) It caused a 2 month speedbump but now they don't even NEED the Writer's Guild.

The Companies are finding viewership is actually *up* with their recent flood of reality shows and costs are down. American Gladiators got an astounding share of viewers this last Sunday night - and yes, I watched it too.(loved that show growing up)

In short, the world has changed. As much as I support the writers and actors, the reality is that the studios have too many "outs" and what every union fears is happeneing - they are simply being sidestepped and ignored.
It's a problem with striking - you always run the risk of them taking shop elsewhere and leaving you with nothing.

Plus, it's not like they are engineers maintaining our public transit systems. Every single job in Hollywood is optional when you get down to it. So 24 dies off.. they'll move on with one of the other 4000 ideas they have. And having been practically IV fed the stuff since birth and being addicted to television and media, we'll watch whatever they churn out.

24 is a notable exception - being that most of it is filmed in Los Angeles, the terrorist capitol of the world - lol - or at least it seems like it in the show, there's no option but to wait. It'll be back on next fall though.

Black fist

01-08-2008, 11:29 PM

My shows are stuck in reruns hell because of this shit so all these crappy reality shows are popping up and football only comes on 2 days of the week.

stsparky

01-08-2008, 11:48 PM

The writers are right, the producers need to cave. But we'll see this repeat until both figure how not to shoot themselves in the foot.

darighaz

01-08-2008, 11:55 PM

Swede

01-09-2008, 12:13 AM

Eh, I think the studios are more to blame for putting people out of work than the writers. They really aren't asking for much, and given the inconsistent way in which writers make their money, the residuals they are asking for with the constantly growing hd-dvd/blu ray and internet sales is more so that they can keep making the same amount of money they have been, rather than trying to make more money. More people watch tv and movies online now, so it takes away from the money they were getting through other mediums.

The strike isn't helping anyone, and it's just ridiculous that they aren't even talking at this point when so many are getting hurt.

Trump

01-09-2008, 09:44 PM

I will say this to start, I do not know all of the details behind this strike (namely what they are asking for and what they are being offered). That said, I still find it hard to believe they cannot make a deal. However, it is my feeling that the studios make more than enough money off these shows and can afford to part with some of the profits...

RandomPasserby

01-09-2008, 10:01 PM

The writers are putting thousands of people out of work so they can make more money.

I agree they deserve due compensation for their work, but not at this cost. They're no better than anyone else trying to make an extra buck at this point.
You do realize that you are falling for the oldest trick in the book?

Kicking out unrelated people is a win-win for the studios, they either make the public hate writers and force the writers to end their strike or look like saints and have great excuses to cut salaries when hiring back people they had been "forced" to lay off? It is a just a pr-trick.

Radiance

01-10-2008, 01:02 AM

I love one of WGA's demands.

-Expand WGA coverage of reality programs.

So, they want more control over reality programming. Hmmm, doesn't that kinda undermine the name "reality"?

Anyhow, this frankly doesn't bother me in the least, let them strike until they're blue in the face. I don't watch TV and rarely enjoy modern movies and this doesn't effect folks that write technical training manuals for my various certifications.

xtine

01-10-2008, 01:51 AM

belladonna

01-10-2008, 06:26 AM

i hope that this ends soon, just for the fact that a lot of people are losing jobs, but also the awards shows are getting cancelled that alone will cost hollywood, grocery stores (for awards show parties), and several other industries a lot of money

Radiance

01-10-2008, 07:03 PM

Do you realize that most reality shows ARE scripted already? Most reality shows are hardly "reality" at all.

Of course I realize they're scripted. I would have to be dumb to believe any production studio would take ten people, stick them in a house with a film crew and go "Okay, now produce us a TV series." It just makes me laugh to see it written out, specifically as a demand on the writer's behalf.

Roxie

01-10-2008, 07:15 PM

Wasn't that Viacom that tried to sue YouTube for a billion?

Anyway, I'm glad Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince is working out well, but this shit needs to finished with. Geezus, give them the fucking change already. I want my Joss Whedon!

Radiance

01-11-2008, 12:39 AM

Wasn't that Viacom that tried to sue YouTube for a billion?

Yup, it was a suit against YouTube and Google that they settled out of court. Sucks too cause my law firm almost got the legal proceedings for that suit, a couple of us would have retired from it. :/

darighaz

01-11-2008, 12:51 AM

You do realize that you are falling for the oldest trick in the book?

Kicking out unrelated people is a win-win for the studios, they either make the public hate writers and force the writers to end their strike or look like saints and have great excuses to cut salaries when hiring back people they had been "forced" to lay off? It is a just a pr-trick.

I'm not falling for any trick. People ARE out of jobs. Thats a fact.

As a result of the strike, thousands of people dont have jobs.

Theres no PR gimmick... Theres no work to do, ergo, no one is getting paid.

Roxie

01-11-2008, 02:08 AM

I'm glad I got the "Angel" series for Christmas.

Vincent

01-15-2008, 08:37 PM

OFF TOPIC: i lol'd at stsparky's reference to stranger from a strange land.

Grok. lewl