The Relationships Thread

[bluestars87]

Met is a figurative term.
So then what do you literally mean?

[bluestars87]

Yeah she's not coming up here. She wouldn't fold. Guess that means I'll be going down there soon...

[Swede]

So I gave aforementioned cute girl a call the other night to see if she wanted to hang out the next day... But she was out of town for labor day weekend :gloomy:

She did seem really happy/enthusiastic that I had called her, though I'm pretty sure every time I've seen her she's been really happy/enthusiastic, so I'm still not sure if she's interested or not :boggled:

I kind of just left it open and told her she should give me a call if she wants to hang out sometime this week since I'll be on campus a lot... She said she would be too, which I should have sort of figured since she lives on campus. I'm kinda dumb sometimes. Anyway, I'm sorta optimistic, sorta not sure what to expect. I kind of suck at this. :meh:

[bluestars87]

I kind of suck at this. :meh:
Now is that what a cool guy would say? Hmmm?

[Swede]

Now is that what a cool guy would say? Hmmm?

I say things like that to curb all this pent up pride I have. And by saying "I suck at this" I meant at reading women, not at being awesome.

[Samurai_Pooh]

I say things like that to curb all this pent up pride I have. And by saying "I suck at this" I meant at reading women, not at being awesome.

Pretty sure most of us do, or we wouldn't be posting here.

[bluestars87]

I say things like that to curb all this pent up pride I have. And by saying "I suck at this" I meant at reading women, not at being awesome.
Right. Just checking...

Just didn't seem like your confidence was all there. Regardless, good luck with your situation.

[stsparky]

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/tiny/2008/tiny080904.gif

And all one needs to do is be their selves. If some interesting party refuses to communicate then move on after explaining why.

You shouldn't have to read people in a clearly false way. You aren't playing at being a psychic.

[bluestars87]

You know I think I'm going to give up on the girl I was trying to talk to. The one that used to go to my high school. I guess she isn't really looking for any relationship kind of status at this point. Actually I don't recall her ever having a boyfriend these past four years I've known her. But yeah she's really bad about talking on the phone (I don't get why this is a problem for a lot of girls) and just communicating in general. Unless you physically see her everyday or something. And that obviously can't happen because she's in Irvine and I'm in the bay area. Oh well.

On the bright side, the new semester for my school started today (and I must mention that there are a bunch of hot girls at my school and in San Francisco in general.) In my first class back I talked to a familiar face. A Korean girl (from Korea too) from last semester who I kind of got to know towards the year's end. And now we're in the same class again this semester. She's really cute and charming. But seems quite mature for her age at the same time. Probably because she's 23??? We talked quite a bit today, hanging out on breaks and we sit right next to each other in class. So the chemistry is already there. When I asked for her phone number today she just grabbed my phone and typed it in to call her phone. I thought that was funny how fast she did it.

Anyways, yeah so I'll probably ask her to hang out soon. Maybe like a simple first date. I was thinking about a cafe, but we've practically hung out at this one cafe on our break almost all the time. So I wanted to try something different. Obviously not something like going to a movie or a museum because I believe that those kind of things are a little restricting when getting to know one another. Meh, I'm sure I'll think of something.

But yes on a bad first day back to school this was a lone bright spot. She smokes, but I guess I could deal with that. Like I said earlier she's cute and charming while being mature at the same time. And she has a pretty nice body (she was wearing these nice stockings today and I couldn't help but peak several times and her beautiful legs). And it appears we get along great. She lives on Treasure Island at the moment, the place I'm trying to move to actually. Some other girl was talking with us today and happened to ask what she had been up to over the summer and if she was still with her boyfriend. So I fortunately didn't have to ask. She told the girl they broke up a while back before summer. So that's more good news I guess. Hopefully things work out.

[Swede]

And all one needs to do is be their selves. If some interesting party refuses to communicate then move on after explaining why.

You shouldn't have to read people in a clearly false way. You aren't playing at being a psychic.

Good advice methinks.

Pretty much the approach I'm taking, just trying to play it cool and be myself. Saw the girl briefly yesterday while we were working a table at a fair type thing for all the different student organizations. She seemed really happy to see me, and she said she'd give me a call as she was leaving :3

Swede has hope.

[Samurai_Pooh]

Oh my god. There so many hot girls at my university. TOO MANY.

How am I supposed to listen to lectures with these girls in my field of vision? fuuuuck I can hardly concentrate



But yes on a bad first day back to school this was a lone bright spot. She smokes, but I guess I could deal with that. .

A man once told me 'if she smokes, she pokes'

which I guess is supposed to be good. But I thought guys did the poking? :boggled:

[Roxie]

which I guess is supposed to be good. But I thought guys did the poking? :boggled:
A wee bit sheltered?

I haven't heard from that guy who was my friend. So I guess that's my answer...it went as I expected, but I would've liked to have heard it.

[bluestars87]

Oh my god. There so many hot girls at my university. TOO MANY.

How am I supposed to listen to lectures with these girls in my field of vision? fuuuuck I can hardly concentrate
Oh? What school do you go to?

[Samurai_Pooh]

Oh? What school do you go to?

university of winnipeg. Its the only real liberal-arts college for miles around, so thats probably what attracts them.

[Swede]

Oh my god. There so many hot girls at my university. TOO MANY.

How am I supposed to listen to lectures with these girls in my field of vision? fuuuuck I can hardly concentrate

I noticed the same thing here, but I sort of got used to it. Especially once you hear most of them start talking :/

[Relentless]

same here, there was a huge influx of freshmen this year, and many of them are girls. i dont necessarily agree with objectifying women (ahem, indeed, pip-pip, cheerio) but i do say! this semester is like open-season. being a sociologist at heart, i used this week as a base stage for a little something. no, a big something in proportion. i'm going to see just how much i can dance on the line of definitive 'player' before skirting upon actually being one / considered one. my intuition tells me it's going to blow up in my face if i'm too reckless.

oh! this is something for you fellas. hahahahaha! ok, there's this girl here that i met when i was still a senior in high school (i'm a townie). i met her through a friend at work, and also because our families, though unbeknownst to me, had a connection long ago in their own high school and college days. romantic, huh? well, for my whole freshmen year here, she referred to me as a little brother. hugs, smiles, etc. then, i had a little run-in with some bookies ala Ann Arbor (saved some douchebags' asses at quite a cost of injury, we're not even going to get into that yet) which kinda freaked some people out, though she is the only person outside my circle of friends i told. i really think it put some distance between us. so now, for nearly a year, it has become a game, as i see it, to see who can be the most oblivious to the other when in close proximity. i know she's there, she knows i'm there, but we purposefully ignore each other. i didnt fully pick up on this until just a few weeks ago, but now that i understand what's going on i'm having some fun with it. from one viewpoint, it's Game. from another, it's blatant disregard and insult to the other person. i also have this theory that she's talking mad trash about me to anyone who she knows is getting chummy with me. i think this because of some strange variables in the way people interact with me after this girl makes contact with people i talk with occasionally. i think she's too nice to be doing that, but call me crazy, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you." and all that jazz. i was raised on Chess and Go, i'm wired to think ahead considering all possibilities at all times. this girl has turned out to be an interesting challenge, though i have no intention of a relationship with her. i think it's in my best interest to settle what's going on and leave it be.

[bluestars87]

same here, there was a huge influx of freshmen this year, and many of them are girls. i dont necessarily agree with objectifying women (ahem, indeed, pip-pip, cheerio) but i do say! this semester is like open-season. being a sociologist at heart, i used this week as a base stage for a little something. no, a big something in proportion. i'm going to see just how much i can dance on the line of definitive 'player' before skirting upon actually being one / considered one. my intuition tells me it's going to blow up in my face if i'm too reckless.

oh! this is something for you fellas. hahahahaha! ok, there's this girl here that i met when i was still a senior in high school (i'm a townie). i met her through a friend at work, and also because our families, though unbeknownst to me, had a connection long ago in their own high school and college days. romantic, huh? well, for my whole freshmen year here, she referred to me as a little brother. hugs, smiles, etc. then, i had a little run-in with some bookies ala Ann Arbor (saved some douchebags' asses at quite a cost of injury, we're not even going to get into that yet) which kinda freaked some people out, though she is the only person outside my circle of friends i told. i really think it put some distance between us. so now, for nearly a year, it has become a game, as i see it, to see who can be the most oblivious to the other when in close proximity. i know she's there, she knows i'm there, but we purposefully ignore each other. i didnt fully pick up on this until just a few weeks ago, but now that i understand what's going on i'm having some fun with it. from one viewpoint, it's Game. from another, it's blatant disregard and insult to the other person. i also have this theory that she's talking mad trash about me to anyone who she knows is getting chummy with me. i think this because of some strange variables in the way people interact with me after this girl makes contact with people i talk with occasionally. i think she's too nice to be doing that, but call me crazy, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you." and all that jazz. i was raised on Chess and Go, i'm wired to think ahead considering all possibilities at all times. this girl has turned out to be an interesting challenge, though i have no intention of a relationship with her. i think it's in my best interest to settle what's going on and leave it be.
Sounds like quite a mess. Just move on.

[Mittens]

What does one do when conversation begins to decline in a relationship?
There seems to be a lack of things to talk about now, mostly is routine stuff, but I cannot think of anything to talk about these days, and its beginning to feel drawn out whenever we phone each other.

There isn't really much to talk about frankly, as our day to day lives have been the same for a while now, except in 2 weeks I move away from the central part of my city to the outskirts to live near my university. Its not out of town per se, but its far away enough that local travel routes and means are cut off.

I don't have a car or a licence so I cant see my girlfriend as much as I'd like to once it happens (the move), and she has begun full time work up here in central London. Heaven knows I love her more than I've ever loved anyone else, and I want to make this work, especially when we're gonna be so far from one another.

How can I keep the flame lit? What things could I do to keep her interested in me? I know she loves me, and I trust her completely, but my side is beginning to slack...

[Duke Luke of Juke]

At this Greek restaurant a bunch of my grad student friends and I went to tonight our waitress was this Lebanese girl with olive skin who looked like Jasmine from Aladdin. Muy caliente.

[Roxie]

What does one do when conversation begins to decline in a relationship?
How can I keep the flame lit? What things could I do to keep her interested in me? I know she loves me, and I trust her completely, but my side is beginning to slack...
Do something NEW! Look in your local paper for festivals, speakers, presentations, art exhibits. Try some new food. Take couples dancing lessons. Have an imagination, man!

[stsparky]

Mittens - it's time to listen.

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/tiny/2008/tiny080911.gif

[Roxie]

ahaha. I would send that to the guy I know...let's call him Jacob, that I was talking about IF WE WERE TALKING [/moment of weakness]

[Samurai_Pooh]

following mastikers lead, I have 'met' a couple of girls on okcupid, and have dates lined up for this weekend.

This will be the first time i will be meeting someone IRL from the internets (exclusively). I hope this won't end up backfiring on me somehow.

[h2orowe]

What does one do when conversation begins to decline in a relationship?
There seems to be a lack of things to talk about now, mostly is routine stuff, but I cannot think of anything to talk about these days, and its beginning to feel drawn out whenever we phone each other.

There isn't really much to talk about frankly, as our day to day lives have been the same for a while now, except in 2 weeks I move away from the central part of my city to the outskirts to live near my university. Its not out of town per se, but its far away enough that local travel routes and means are cut off.

I don't have a car or a licence so I cant see my girlfriend as much as I'd like to once it happens (the move), and she has begun full time work up here in central London. Heaven knows I love her more than I've ever loved anyone else, and I want to make this work, especially when we're gonna be so far from one another.

How can I keep the flame lit? What things could I do to keep her interested in me? I know she loves me, and I trust her completely, but my side is beginning to slack...
Honestly, if you're talking on the phone, involve her in the activities you're doing. Talk about your day in detail. Tell her about every little, tiny detail, no matter how insignificant. Don't do it in a boring way, make it almost like a writing exercise because I've seen you post stories so I know you at least HAVE written. Just think of the phrase "If you're bored then you must be boring, too."

Me and my girlfriend, when we have moments of silence/nothing, will just constantly make sounds back and forth and say I love you in weird voices and shit. We're literally together all day. We have classes together (Same exact schedule), we were together every day minus one this entire Summer, and she's over every day we don't have class (We get the same rides/bus rides and shit during class.) I've hit the mindset of "OH NO NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT" but there is. Hell, take up a new hobby with her and just talk about that. Learn a new language with her. Me and my girlfriend are in Karate and Band as well as academic classes; we can practice karate or instruments when we're bored.

There's limitless possibilities, man. Just gotta do remember that there's never a way to run out of conversation. There's just pauses.

At this Greek restaurant a bunch of my grad student friends and I went to tonight our waitress was this Lebanese girl with olive skin who looked like Jasmine from Aladdin. Muy caliente.
Dude, Jasmine was always the hottest to me. D:

[Swede]

What does one do when conversation begins to decline in a relationship?
There seems to be a lack of things to talk about now, mostly is routine stuff, but I cannot think of anything to talk about these days, and its beginning to feel drawn out whenever we phone each other.

There isn't really much to talk about frankly, as our day to day lives have been the same for a while now, except in 2 weeks I move away from the central part of my city to the outskirts to live near my university. Its not out of town per se, but its far away enough that local travel routes and means are cut off.

I don't have a car or a licence so I cant see my girlfriend as much as I'd like to once it happens (the move), and she has begun full time work up here in central London. Heaven knows I love her more than I've ever loved anyone else, and I want to make this work, especially when we're gonna be so far from one another.

How can I keep the flame lit? What things could I do to keep her interested in me? I know she loves me, and I trust her completely, but my side is beginning to slack...

Sounds like phone sex would kill two birds with one stone. :watson:

[Kyletherealninja]

Lebanese girls are hot. I totally had a crush on one when I was in fifth grade (Not only that, she was my teacher's daughter. And older than me.)

[stsparky]

Look. What you're interested in will always be hot to you. I always admired the 'smoking hot' Korean lady Pocahontas' image was based on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q246/U8B/Pocahontas/pocahontas-39.jpg
It's rule 34 though I assume which means that for you I think most of the really perverse stuff happens with Jasmine though ...

the smoking Korean lady Pocahontas' image was based on.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Lindalarkin_aladdin.JPG

I wonder what Beth Hern looks like now?

[Trump]

How can I keep the flame lit? What things could I do to keep her interested in me? I know she loves me, and I trust her completely, but my side is beginning to slack...

So if there is nothing to talk about, do something together and make things to talk about. A person will talk about things they are interested in, so figure out what she's really into right now and ask her about it.

[Samurai_Pooh]

Lebanese girls are hot. I totally had a crush on one when I was in fifth grade (Not only that, she was my teacher's daughter. And older than me.)

QFT

I worked with a part-lebanese girl and damn. She was really awesome to work with too. I miss her :gloomy:

[Mittens]

Talk about your day in detail. Tell her about every little, tiny detail, no matter how insignificant. Don't do it in a boring way, make it almost like a writing exercise because I've seen you post stories so I know you at least HAVE written. Just think of the phrase "If you're bored then you must be boring, too."

Just gotta do remember that there's never a way to run out of conversation. There's just pauses.

This advice has helped me out so far the most.

Do something NEW! Look in your local paper for festivals, speakers, presentations, art exhibits. Try some new food. Take couples dancing lessons. Have an imagination, man!

This too.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I've got the whole thing under wraps in my head, and I'm a lil more confident now with my talkies.
Cheers guys.

[bluestars87]

Week 2. I spoke with my Korean "friend" again in class. Kind of the same results as last week. Talked a lot, ate lunch together at a cafe near our class. Bleh. Kind of wanted things to move a little faster. It's funny, do women sometimes pretend like they're not being hit on or something? Or are they really that blind? I know my game isn't that bad...not like I make it totally obvious, but my hints are obvious enough.

I called her twice this past week with a few days in between each call. She texted me back. Apparently she doesn't feel that comfortable talking in English on the phone because she believe her English isn't that great. I think it's okay, but I suppose how that might be uncomfortable. You can consider this girl a...well...it's a derogatory phrase so I don't wand to use the exact wording, but it's an acronym that rhymes with the word "Bob".

She mentioned she was down to hang out perhaps later on during next week...I don't know if she'll call though. I don't think I'm going to contact her this week though. I want to wait it out and see if she actually tries to contact me.

On another side note I met these two other girls in my class. One is another student in my room who is Japanese but is...well...I wouldn't say exactly a bitch...she's not mean, just seems like she only has a legitimate conversation with you if you actually know her super personally or something...like if you're not on her "important" list she won't pay that much attention to you when you're talking to her and won't bother to converse back with you after your initial statement. I like to call it "lazy/rude conversing". She's kinda cute which is pretty much the only reason I tried making friends with her.

But her friend who modeled for us today was super nice and friendly. Not sure what ethnicity she is...I know she's Asian, but...hmmm...I don't know. Anyways, she was pretty much the opposite of that Japanese girl I just mentioned. Really good to hold a conversation with. Yay I think I'll be painting with her during extra practice sessions since she's a model but also a student at our school too.

But I'm not really out for those two. The Korean girl I've been talking to is the one I'm trying to make something happen with. Always seems like she's happy about something. Oh and she's 25...and I'll be 21 Monday. LOL. I thought she was 23, but...ehhh...whatever? Guess I'll see how things go.

[Ceirnian]

Kind of wanted things to move a little faster. It's funny, do women sometimes pretend like they're not being hit on or something? Or are they really that blind? I know my game isn't that bad...not like I make it totally obvious, but my hints are obvious enough.
....

She mentioned she was down to hang out perhaps later on during next week...I don't know if she'll call though. I don't think I'm going to contact her this week though. I want to wait it out and see if she actually tries to contact me.


God you are such a damn woman, don't sit back and expect the girl to do any type of work initially. Especially since she seems to be the shy type for not talking with you on the phone.

[bluestars87]

God you are such a damn woman, don't sit back and expect the girl to do any type of work initially. Especially since she seems to be the shy type for not talking with you on the phone.
Yeah well...calling repeatedly isn't going to help the situation. I'm not sure about you, but I don't do the "needy" approach. If she doesn't call back or keeps telling me she's busy or whatever then she's clearly not that interested.

I joked around with her after class today criticizing her (again jokingly) about not calling back and she said she would call me, and I told her not to worry about it and that it's not necessary...we can just see each other in class Friday. Of course I do want her to call, but I'm not going to be commanding about it.

I might call her at least once during this week...might, but like I said I don't want to keep bothering her. I called her twice last week and nothing really came of it.

[h2orowe]

I joked around with her after class today criticizing her (again jokingly) about not calling back and she said she would call me, and I told her not to worry about it and that it's not necessary...we can just see each other in class Friday. Of course I do want her to call, but I'm not going to be commanding about it.
You want her to call you, yet you tell her not to worry about calling you/not to call you because you'll see her Friday? You're making it sound like you're an inconvenience to her. You don't really even have to be needy or the opposite of needy, just don't make it sound like her contacting you (especially if she wants to) is going to be a burden for either you and/or her.

[bluestars87]

You want her to call you, yet you tell her not to worry about calling you/not to call you because you'll see her Friday? You're making it sound like you're an inconvenience to her. You don't really even have to be needy or the opposite of needy, just don't make it sound like her contacting you (especially if she wants to) is going to be a burden for either you and/or her.
Okay let me explain this to you in a little more detail. After class. 2:50pm.

Me: "Oh so are you going this way?"

Her "Yeah I go to 79 then 180"

Me "Oh alright I'm going this way to catch the train. Oh hey call me this week! (jokingly serious)

Her "Oh yeah yeah I'll call you!!!"

Me "Hahahaha, nah I'm just kidding, it's not a big deal. We can just talk Friday or whatever"

Her "No, no, no I'll call you, I'll call you (at this point it seemed like I was the bad guy and I had the feeling I had pressed the issue of wanting her to call me from my previous comments that morning)"

Me "Hey relax, I was just kidding. Have a nice weekend hahaha"

Right so, at this point I decided not to press the issue too much. I'm going to see her for 14 more weeks in class. Not that I plan to wait that long, but it's been one week since I've gotten reacquainted with her, and even though the chemistry is great...she still apparently doesn't "get it" with all of the hints I'm dropping.

Basically I want her to return the interest at least once on her own without me having to do all the work. It's like having a conversation with someone you're into. You don't want to be the one doing all the talking while the other person is either just listening and or just acknowledging your comments. You want them to actually talk on their own and inquire about certain subjects towards you so you know the feeling is mutual.

[japanat]

Okay let me explain this to you in a little more detail. After class. 2:50pm.

Me: "Oh so are you going this way?"

Her "Yeah I go to 79 then 180"

Me "Oh alright I'm going this way to catch the train. Oh hey call me this week! (jokingly serious)

Her "Oh yeah yeah I'll call you!!!"

Me "Hahahaha, nah I'm just kidding, it's not a big deal. We can just talk Friday or whatever"

Her "No, no, no I'll call you, I'll call you (at this point it seemed like I was the bad guy and I had the feeling I had pressed the issue of wanting her to call me from my previous comments that morning)"

Me "Hey relax, I was just kidding. Have a nice weekend hahaha"

Right so, at this point I decided not to press the issue too much.Right, so, at this point, you blew it, actually. Different context, but methinks thou doth protest too much.

You said her English isn't all that great, right? Well, Korean men are generally very direct, in my personal experience, so she might just take you at your word and not call. "Not a big deal"? Tsk, tsk, get your ass on the phone now and give her a 5-min call, "just to see how you're doing."

[Plekto]

Wow. People need to watch some old classic romance movies from the 40s and 50s I think.

- rule 1: Never do anything by phone or that's not in person that could be done in person. Any face-time that you have with the opposite sex is like overtime in a football game. A dozen times more important. Why? Because women especially are huge on eye contact and have a damn hard time saying no to a decent guy if he's actually taking the time to talk to her directly.

This also applies to business. Anyone can blow you off if you talk via phone or email, but in person it becomes a problem - you need a real reason.

- rule 2: Fact is, almost all women like the man to be forward and make the first move. They obsess or are likely to have done so for years about romance and relationships and so on, and so a guy sincerely asking her directly gets 1000% attention immediately and also massively boosts her ego.

The male version of this is the "Do I still have it? Yeah I do..." scenario. She'll figure that if you can't be bothered to ask her directly, you're not serious. Also, many women have fairly low self-image due to marketing and other factors in our society. They're lucky if they get asked out once every few months, for most of them. This whole "telepathic love" nonsense might work in Anime and Manga, but it's BS in real life.

Just doing it gives you pretty good odds of being accepted.

Rule 3 - Always politely up the ante if you can. "Would you like to do something after work?" is a classic one, for instance. Chivalry and Romance(tm) may be nearly dead, but people are nostalgic and frankly, it works more often than not. It also pushes the issue - that immediately you're not interested in being a friend, but possibly more. This is critical early on as it sets the groundwork. The fact is, that 50% of men who are on the "friends" ladder got there because they failed to make it clear that they wanted to date her early on. Being too casual and passive and using "facebook"/IM/etc is a one way ticket to the friends zone.

In your case, dress/clean up a tiny bit on monday and just ask her if she'd like to go on a date with you. Nothing to lose, really. If she says no but still wants to hang out or go slower, that's fine as well. She knows your interests are in dating her eventually and not being friends/hanging out.

P.S. A direct approach like this is usually about 20-25% effective. Really.

Rule 4 - If you're interested in a woman, they are jealous and notice everything you do. This is the infamous "women's instinct". This means you only go after one woman at a time and don't chat, don't talk, don't do anything at all in class(in this case) with anyone but her until you get shot down or stop dating. This is how the other 50% get in the friends zone. Because they can read five pages into that single glance you make at the other girl in class. And there's no use hiding anything, so don't try to be a player.

Guys are completely transparent to women until they are at least in their 30s. or 40s and have learned how to be harder to read. Just the way it is.

[Relentless]

^ Quite true, especially on the party/club/bar/just-hanging-out scene, where those rules are foundations.

Bluestars, stop saying "I'm just kidding" it reduces the mystery in what you're saying, give her something to mull over, and it makes you look at fault for no reason at all. find some other way to relieve that, nothing that will spell it out. joke around at every opportunity. make her read between the lines. also, speak adamently. say "I'm going to [blahblahblahfuckingrestaurant] now (or later time specified), come with me." or "Call me tonight." and if she doesnt after even two chances, drop her or change what you're doing completely because she's not interested. the goal here is to give her as little power over the situation as possible and be the leader (not to say overpower her...) because she's not going to be as interested if you appear as someone of lower value than her, if you are resolute in your decision (and delivery of the statement thereof) to go some place or talk with her, she will follow suit unless you're fucking up in some other area. something to consider. internet. best of luck.


my experiment has run into a problem that i did not foresee to become a problem- it's working. it hasnt gotten too hot to handle yet, but i have no experience juggling around several women at once. also, my subject position (term?) on campus will play into this in the next few weeks, a lot more will be in the open, then everything will start to swirl.

and my issue with the pseudo-sister is resolving strangely.

[bluestars87]

Right, so, at this point, you blew it, actually. Different context, but methinks thou doth protest too much.

You said her English isn't all that great, right? Well, Korean men are generally very direct, in my personal experience, so she might just take you at your word and not call. "Not a big deal"? Tsk, tsk, get your ass on the phone now and give her a 5-min call, "just to see how you're doing."
I suppose you either just don't understand or rather, you have a different philosophy when it comes to these kinds of things.

From my viewpoint it doesn't show much confidence in terms as a person. Again, why should I have to press the issue more than necessary? I have the confidence that she'll call me if she's actually interested. I shouldn't have to force her to show that actual interest especially when I've dropped enough hints.

Being too direct takes all the romance out of it and really doesn't show any confidence at all. I shouldn't have to ask more than necessary.

[Roxie]

Gawd, y'all give these really odd round about long explinations as to why he shouldn't protest too much. It's really simple.

It makes you look uninterested and not confident. Two things you don't want to be when attempting to attract someone. You don't want to send those signals.

[bluestars87]

Wow. People need to watch some old classic romance movies from the 40s and 50s I think.

- rule 1: Never do anything by phone or that's not in person that could be done in person. Any face-time that you have with the opposite sex is like overtime in a football game. A dozen times more important. Why? Because women especially are huge on eye contact and have a damn hard time saying no to a decent guy if he's actually taking the time to talk to her directly.

This also applies to business. Anyone can blow you off if you talk via phone or email, but in person it becomes a problem - you need a real reason.

- rule 2: Fact is, almost all women like the man to be forward and make the first move. They obsess or are likely to have done so for years about romance and relationships and so on, and so a guy sincerely asking her directly gets 1000% attention immediately and also massively boosts her ego.

The male version of this is the "Do I still have it? Yeah I do..." scenario. She'll figure that if you can't be bothered to ask her directly, you're not serious. Also, many women have fairly low self-image due to marketing and other factors in our society. They're lucky if they get asked out once every few months, for most of them. This whole "telepathic love" nonsense might work in Anime and Manga, but it's BS in real life.

Just doing it gives you pretty good odds of being accepted.

Rule 3 - Always politely up the ante if you can. "Would you like to do something after work?" is a classic one, for instance. Chivalry and Romance(tm) may be nearly dead, but people are nostalgic and frankly, it works more often than not. It also pushes the issue - that immediately you're not interested in being a friend, but possibly more. This is critical early on as it sets the groundwork. The fact is, that 50% of men who are on the "friends" ladder got there because they failed to make it clear that they wanted to date her early on. Being too casual and passive and using "facebook"/IM/etc is a one way ticket to the friends zone.

In your case, dress/clean up a tiny bit on monday and just ask her if she'd like to go on a date with you. Nothing to lose, really. If she says no but still wants to hang out or go slower, that's fine as well. She knows your interests are in dating her eventually and not being friends/hanging out.

P.S. A direct approach like this is usually about 20-25% effective. Really.

Rule 4 - If you're interested in a woman, they are jealous and notice everything you do. This is the infamous "women's instinct". This means you only go after one woman at a time and don't chat, don't talk, don't do anything at all in class(in this case) with anyone but her until you get shot down or stop dating. This is how the other 50% get in the friends zone. Because they can read five pages into that single glance you make at the other girl in class. And there's no use hiding anything, so don't try to be a player.

Guys are completely transparent to women until they are at least in their 30s. or 40s and have learned how to be harder to read. Just the way it is.
Good point. I already asked the person I'm talking about if she wanted to hang out over the weekend..actually I called her last week twice to see if she was free anytime. She wasn't. Then I pretty much asked her again this weekend if she wanted to hang out around the city or whatever. She's busy apparently with homework, etc. I think my best chance to hang out with her is actually during extra practice sessions at our school.

So basically that's twice in less than a week I've asked if she's available.

[bluestars87]

Gawd, y'all give these really odd round about long explinations as to why he shouldn't protest too much. It's really simple.

It makes you look uninterested and not confident. Two things you don't want to be when attempting to attract someone. You don't want to send those signals.
Yes, thank you. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

[Roxie]

Again, why should I have to press the issue more than necessary?
You shouldn't, but that's not what you did. You pressed the idea that it was perfectly fine if she didn't call and that you weren't really caring either way...which is going to translate to tepid water.

I understand the attempt not to pressure her, but you want her to know or at least get the HINT that you're looking forward to her or that you like her more than others or SOMETHING in that general direction.

Being too direct takes all the romance out of it.
And do you think what you've been doing (I don't know, so I'm really asking here) is romantic?

[bluestars87]

You shouldn't, but that's not what you did. You pressed the idea that it was perfectly fine if she didn't call and that you weren't really caring either way...which is going to translate to tepid water.

I understand the attempt not to pressure her, but you want her to know or at least get the HINT that you're looking forward to her or that you like her more than others or SOMETHING in that general direction.

Because like I already stated, I had already relayed that message several times to her, saying it again, which was probably the 3rd or fourth time (definitely the second that day) would be definitely pressuring the issue. Honestly you had to have been there. I've given more than enough hints...I'd say it's in her hands now. There is only so much I can do. If she doesn't feel that way about me, then she just doesn't.


And do you think what you've been doing (I don't know, so I'm really asking here) is romantic?

I would say it's definitely better than the alternative, which would come off as being non-confident in one's approach. Would a confident person really be asking the girl time after time if she was going to call him? That would actually come off as needy and maybe quite annoying. There is no mystery involved when you're quite direct like that.

But the main purpose is like I stated earlier, to see if she returns some interest. When I said after school "call me if you have time" in a jokingly serious manner she responded in a fashion like...hmmm...she sounded as like if she didn't call me back I would kill her mother or something. She almost had a serious tone towards it. Which is why I implied for her to relax and not worry about it.

[bluestars87]

Bluestars, stop saying "I'm just kidding" it reduces the mystery in what you're saying, give her something to mull over, and it makes you look at fault for no reason at all. find some other way to relieve that, nothing that will spell it out. joke around at every opportunity. make her read between the lines. also, speak adamently. say "I'm going to [blahblahblahfuckingrestaurant] now (or later time specified), come with me." or "Call me tonight." and if she doesnt after even two chances, drop her or change what you're doing completely because she's not interested. the goal here is to give her as little power over the situation as possible and be the leader (not to say overpower her...) because she's not going to be as interested if you appear as someone of lower value than her, if you are resolute in your decision (and delivery of the statement thereof) to go some place or talk with her, she will follow suit unless you're fucking up in some other area. something to consider. internet. best of luck.

Ummm...I've kind of been doing that actually. The chemistry is there. It's like the mystery is solved, but the case isn't closed. Just need more time that's all. And if she doesn't get it after this week or maybe the next then I'll just forget about it. Because no girl in my opinion is worth the trouble if she's not "getting it" after I've made it quite obvious.

Honestly I was just relaying information, not really asking for anyone's advice. But thanks anyways for wishing me good luck in this situation. I'm not opposed to other people's opinions.

[Roxie]

I think you're kind of crutching on this "mystery" concept.

[bluestars87]

I think you're kind of crutching on this "mystery" concept.
Thanks? It's actually a very effective tool in my opinion so if you're criticizing me for using the concept to a large degree, I take it as a compliment.

The concept of mystery in my opinion is not as boring as being quite direct with some things.

[qwert]

What does it mean when a girl was obviously flirting with you (she even wanted me to skip class with her) for a couple days, then starts to retreat a little, and then when you ask her out, she tells you that she actually broke up with a boy this summer that she dated over the summer due to distance problems (can't seem him while at uni), but that she still has feelings for him and she tells you that she wants to be friends and still wants to hang out with you?

I asked if it were ever possible that we could date, and she said yes, but my feeling is that the answer is no. I really don't want to hang out with her b/c there are other girls available that I would rather concentrate on than hanging out with this girl.

[xtine]

The male version of this is the "Do I still have it? Yeah I do..." scenario. She'll figure that if you can't be bothered to ask her directly, you're not serious. Also, many women have fairly low self-image due to marketing and other factors in our society. They're lucky if they get asked out once every few months, for most of them. This whole "telepathic love" nonsense might work in Anime and Manga, but it's BS in real life.

Just doing it gives you pretty good odds of being accepted.


This is sooooo true. I think a lot of people just need to grow thick skin. This goes beyond dating, but life in general. Like, you are going to have a to ask out a lot of girls before you finally match up with someone compatible. It's like a job application. You aren't going to get your dream job right away, and you aren't going to get an offer from every job you apply to. However, you will eventually find one that fits and matches what you like.

Don't pussyfoot around a girl you like. If you guys have chemistry, it will naturally flow anyway, don't try to force something that isn't there if she clearly has no interest in you. And it takes lots of experience in talking to women and having female friends to possibly help you out in that regard. The "romance" thing is a facade in entertainment like tv, movies, *anime/manga*, etc. Yes it can happen, but it's not that common. And look at it this way. Once you have her in dating or a relationship, there are a million ways to romance her then. Why are you sabotaging a relationship with a chick just because you don't have it "just right?"

Girls naturally love attention. Some more than others, obviously. And even more obvious is the fact that the majority of girls have low self-esteem. If a guy is direct and shows that they mean something to them, in many cases it's a big deal. Be cool, confident, but don't show all your cards at once. Directly talk to her, make it available that you are there for her but don't be a doormat. As stupid as it sounds, most girls do not like a guy that completely panders to her and moves his whole schedule around her. Unless of course, you want a woman to domineer you, heh. Don't be boring to a girl, have some interest and mystery to yourself.

Rejection. No likes rejection, but it is how you learn, develop, and gain experience. The sting of your first rejections are the hardest, but you will notice (gasp, like anything else in life you learn) that you will get better at it. Don't become jaded and bitter, but look at it positively. Same as life, there are things that get you down, but you gotta get out of your slump eventually and learn to bounce back even stronger.

Friends. Unless you already have a rolodex of awesome friends, take up on the offer if a girl you wanted to date but has rejected you, wants to stay friends. Most girls will "be friends" for a short time and flake off, but those that stay true as good female friends are invaluable. Don't take it as rejection, but as another opportunity. Not only will the good ones listen to you bitch about girls, but can offer you valuable advice, and hell, are good friends. Also, girls know other girls. Not to say you should use girls to get to other girls, but they can introduce you to other social networks in which you could potentially meet another girl you can like or date.

Get out. Life isn't always about dating, hooking up, or relationships. If you have a string of bad luck, try to explore new things you can do that you enjoy. It's 10x better when you aren't "looking" for a girl but you just happen to get along easily with a girl you meet through something or another and you don't even realize it, but there is a huge potential in dating or a relationship. As they say, it comes when you aren't looking for it.

Also: I don't necessarily think it's "sad," but I think people need to find IRL friends or coworkers or someone they trust for advice for relationship/dating advice rather than to read heavily into the advice of online strangers. I know that a lot of people just do this to kill time or vent or rant or just write and only use this as a compliment to already conversing with others about their dating/love life, but for those that take this seriously... :P

[bluestars87]

What does it mean when a girl was obviously flirting with you (she even wanted me to skip class with her) for a couple days, then starts to retreat a little, and then when you ask her out, she tells you that she actually broke up with a boy this summer that she dated over the summer due to distance problems (can't seem him while at uni), but that she still has feelings for him and she tells you that she wants to be friends and still wants to hang out with you?

I asked if it were ever possible that we could date, and she said yes, but my feeling is that the answer is no. I really don't want to hang out with her b/c there are other girls available that I would rather concentrate on than hanging out with this girl.
It means it's time to move on immediately. The girl is obviously not ready to move on from her current situation. Personally I wouldn't even try to do the "let's be friends" thing because it would probably just make me feel worse associating with someone I couldn't have. But that's just me. Like everyone says, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

[qwert]

...It's like a job application...

Don't pussyfoot around a girl you like...The "romance" thing is a facade in entertainment like tv, movies, *anime/manga*, etc.

Get out. Life isn't always about dating, hooking up, or relationships. If you have a string of bad luck, try to explore new things you can do that you enjoy. It's 10x better when you aren't "looking" for a girl but you just happen to get along easily with a girl you meet through something or another and you don't even realize it, but there is a huge potential in dating or a relationship. As they say, it comes when you aren't looking for it.

I think you just admitted that you want a serendipity type love romance, despite the former. Something like Jim and Pam on the Office.

Friends. Unless you already have a rolodex of awesome friends, take up on the offer if a girl you wanted to date but has rejected you, wants to stay friends. Most girls will "be friends" for a short time and flake off, but those that stay true as good female friends are invaluable. Don't take it as rejection, but as another opportunity. Not only will the good ones listen to you bitch about girls, but can offer you valuable advice, and hell, are good friends. Also, girls know other girls. Not to say you should use girls to get to other girls, but they can introduce you to other social networks in which you could potentially meet another girl you can like or date.

Perhaps, but I don't really want to put in the effort for something I don't get much out of. Also, I don't like to bitch to people about things IRL.

Also: I don't necessarily think it's "sad," but I think people need to find IRL friends or coworkers or someone they trust for advice for relationship/dating advice rather than to read heavily into the advice of online strangers. I know that a lot of people just do this to kill time or vent or rant or just write and only use this as a compliment to already conversing with others about their dating/love life, but for those that take this seriously... :P

Personally, I use the internet bc I would never want to burdern people in know in real life with my petty stuff. When I do, I keep it very simple and to just one other person. Even then, I don't feel comfortable about it. Thus, I use the internet where people are willing to share tons of free information. =)

[bluestars87]

This is sooooo true. I think a lot of people just need to grow thick skin. This goes beyond dating, but life in general. Like, you are going to have a to ask out a lot of girls before you finally match up with someone compatible. It's like a job application. You aren't going to get your dream job right away, and you aren't going to get an offer from every job you apply to. However, you will eventually find one that fits and matches what you like.

Don't pussyfoot around a girl you like. If you guys have chemistry, it will naturally flow anyway, don't try to force something that isn't there if she clearly has no interest in you. And it takes lots of experience in talking to women and having female friends to possibly help you out in that regard. The "romance" thing is a facade in entertainment like tv, movies, *anime/manga*, etc. Yes it can happen, but it's not that common. And look at it this way. Once you have her in dating or a relationship, there are a million ways to romance her then. Why are you sabotaging a relationship with a chick just because you don't have it "just right?"

Girls naturally love attention. Some more than others, obviously. And even more obvious is the fact that the majority of girls have low self-esteem. If a guy is direct and shows that they mean something to them, in many cases it's a big deal. Be cool, confident, but don't show all your cards at once. Directly talk to her, make it available that you are there for her but don't be a doormat. As stupid as it sounds, most girls do not like a guy that completely panders to her and moves his whole schedule around her. Unless of course, you want a woman to domineer you, heh. Don't be boring to a girl, have some interest and mystery to yourself.

Rejection. No likes rejection, but it is how you learn, develop, and gain experience. The sting of your first rejections are the hardest, but you will notice (gasp, like anything else in life you learn) that you will get better at it. Don't become jaded and bitter, but look at it positively. Same as life, there are things that get you down, but you gotta get out of your slump eventually and learn to bounce back even stronger.

Friends. Unless you already have a rolodex of awesome friends, take up on the offer if a girl you wanted to date but has rejected you, wants to stay friends. Most girls will "be friends" for a short time and flake off, but those that stay true as good female friends are invaluable. Don't take it as rejection, but as another opportunity. Not only will the good ones listen to you bitch about girls, but can offer you valuable advice, and hell, are good friends. Also, girls know other girls. Not to say you should use girls to get to other girls, but they can introduce you to other social networks in which you could potentially meet another girl you can like or date.

Get out. Life isn't always about dating, hooking up, or relationships. If you have a string of bad luck, try to explore new things you can do that you enjoy. It's 10x better when you aren't "looking" for a girl but you just happen to get along easily with a girl you meet through something or another and you don't even realize it, but there is a huge potential in dating or a relationship. As they say, it comes when you aren't looking for it.

Also: I don't necessarily think it's "sad," but I think people need to find IRL friends or coworkers or someone they trust for advice for relationship/dating advice rather than to read heavily into the advice of online strangers. I know that a lot of people just do this to kill time or vent or rant or just write and only use this as a compliment to already conversing with others about their dating/love life, but for those that take this seriously... :P
This is a pretty good post. Quite direct and simple to understand. Seems like you know what you're talking about.

[bluestars87]

I think you just admitted that you want a serendipity type love romance, despite the former. Something like Jim and Pam on the Office.
The person wasn't admitting anything. They're just saying that in their opinion it's better to stumble upon someone who you could develop a friendship with and possibly relationship with who you actually know very well via class, or the workplace, etc. than just wandering aimlessly and trying to get hooked up with any girl you see at first notice...which actually might be a little harder in the first place because you might not have anything in common to talk about and that's where you really need to be on top of your "game".

[qwert]

The person wasn't admitting anything. They're just saying that in their opinion it's better to stumble upon someone who you could develop a friendship with and possibly relationship with who you actually know very well via class, or the workplace, etc. than just wandering aimlessly and trying to get hooked up with any girl you see at first notice...which actually might be a little harder in the first place because you might not have anything in common to talk about and that's where you really need to be on top of your "game".

I'm saying that is like a movie, which she said was BS. Obviously though, this is something she has thought about and wishes for.

Although I do admit this is probably more common in small towns or small town minded people. People who started paying together in elementary school (and finding each other attractive) and marrying while still in college and what not.

[xtine]

I'm saying that is like a movie, which she said was BS. Obviously though, this is something she has thought about and wishes for.

Although I do admit this is probably more common in small towns or small town minded people. People who started paying together in elementary school (and finding each other attractive) and marrying while still in college and what not.

LOL. Meeting someone through chance when you are not desperate or not looking is *not* like a movie. Do you know people who are married? Or in serious relationships? How did they meet? Was either partner explicitly looking for a person to date when they met each other? Not often.
I am not talking about some "love at first sight" or something taken out of 'When Harry met Sally.'

Many people find their partners through friends of a friend, classmates, social events, etc. One of my recently-married friends met his wife when he was waiting at a US embassy because he needed a visa to go to some European country. This girl asked him for help and they struck up a conversation and exchanged phone numbers and through a year and a half of a successful relationship, decided to get married. Needless to say, he was not trolling the embassy trying to talk to chicks to date but happened by chance.

Not to say that match making services, friends trying to set you up, online dating, etc does not work. What I am meaning to say, sometimes people try too hard, they go through avenues of online dating websites, clubs and social meetup venues to try to look for someone because of their inflated inner perception of loneliness.

I say this personally because, I have been there before. Once you stop caring about "finding someone to date," you need to start believing in yourself. Hang out with friends, go to the gym, find new hobbies or re-ignite older ones. Have some more faith and confidence in yourself. As cliche as it is, if you don't love yourself it's hard for someone else to love you. Not only that, when you seek to improve yourself and become happier with yourself, other people notice. You also attract the attention of coworkers, friends, perhaps even strangers. In general, you become a more desirable person.

[bluestars87]

LOL. Meeting someone through chance when you are not desperate or not looking is *not* like a movie. Do you know people who are married? Or in serious relationships? How did they meet? Was either partner explicitly looking for a person to date when they met each other? Not often.
I am not talking about some "love at first sight" or something taken out of 'When Harry met Sally.'

Many people find their partners through friends of a friend, classmates, social events, etc. One of my recently-married friends met his wife when he was waiting at a US embassy because he needed a visa to go to some European country. This girl asked him for help and they struck up a conversation and exchanged phone numbers and through a year and a half of a successful relationship, decided to get married. Needless to say, he was not trolling the embassy trying to talk to chicks to date but happened by chance.

Not to say that match making services, friends trying to set you up, online dating, etc does not work. What I am meaning to say, sometimes people try too hard, they go through avenues of online dating websites, clubs and social meetup venues to try to look for someone because of their inflated inner perception of loneliness.

I say this personally because, I have been there before. Once you stop caring about "finding someone to date," you need to start believing in yourself. Hang out with friends, go to the gym, find new hobbies or re-ignite older ones. Have some more faith and confidence in yourself. As cliche as it is, if you don't love yourself it's hard for someone else to love you. Not only that, when you seek to improve yourself and become happier with yourself, other people notice. You also attract the attention of coworkers, friends, perhaps even strangers. In general, you become a more desirable person.
Post of the year.

[qwert]

LOL. Meeting someone through chance when you are not desperate or not looking is *not* like a movie. Do you know people who are married? Or in serious relationships? How did they meet? Was either partner explicitly looking for a person to date when they met each other? Not often.
I am not talking about some "love at first sight" or something taken out of 'When Harry met Sally.'

Many people find their partners through friends of a friend, classmates, social events, etc. One of my recently-married friends met his wife when he was waiting at a US embassy because he needed a visa to go to some European country. This girl asked him for help and they struck up a conversation and exchanged phone numbers and through a year and a half of a successful relationship, decided to get married. Needless to say, he was not trolling the embassy trying to talk to chicks to date but happened by chance.

Not to say that match making services, friends trying to set you up, online dating, etc does not work. What I am meaning to say, sometimes people try too hard, they go through avenues of online dating websites, clubs and social meetup venues to try to look for someone because of their inflated inner perception of loneliness.

I say this personally because, I have been there before. Once you stop caring about "finding someone to date," you need to start believing in yourself. Hang out with friends, go to the gym, find new hobbies or re-ignite older ones. Have some more faith and confidence in yourself. As cliche as it is, if you don't love yourself it's hard for someone else to love you. Not only that, when you seek to improve yourself and become happier with yourself, other people notice. You also attract the attention of coworkers, friends, perhaps even strangers. In general, you become a more desirable person.

Ok, I just reread what you wrote and I must have just read it wrong. But, yup, sounds right.

btw, when I met the girl, it was totally by chance. I don't seek out girls. I let them come to me. Unless I see someone really attractive in which case I have to at least try.

Bottom line: wait, and if you see someone you like, strike a conversation. Obviously, problems come about when people are not confident and don't make their feelings evident to the opposite sex.

Without clothes, finding a mate would be a lot easier.

It means it's time to move on immediately. The girl is obviously not ready to move on from her current situation. Personally I wouldn't even try to do the "let's be friends" thing because it would probably just make me feel worse associating with someone I couldn't have. But that's just me. Like everyone says, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

woah, how did I miss this? I blame the small monitors in the comp lab I was in while eating pizza. XD

Really, I don't mind. I was just really surprised. She was coming on pretty darn strong for two days, but then started to do so less, but would still do it. Frankly, I think she is really immature (freshman). I have seen how she talks and behaves and it is not attractive. This is why I don't really want to be friends with her b/c it would be annoying. Now that I think about it, I guess this is all for the best.

Besides, there are two others as well as two girls which I really wished I could be bf/gf with, but one has a bf and the other...maybe later.

[Plekto]

IN person.


If you are resolute in your decision (and delivery of the statement thereof) to go some place or talk with her, she will follow suit unless you're fucking up in some other area.


Eyes forward, eyes on the prize. Resolute is the perfect word here. It says to her that "you're the best person I can possibly imagine being with right now in the entire school". Huge points.

My last bit of advice.

Almost all women are wonderful and beautiful to the person that they love. There's really very few bad choices out there in terms of people to date as long as you are above the 50% mark to start.(ie the truly evil and ugly ones that you can easily weed out)

What this means is that most any decent women that is in love with you will have much to offer to you. So don't so crazy looking for the perfect person. If some woman wants to date you, don't be so picky.

Or in other terms, even so-so pizza is still a good thing. It's being alone and not dating at all not taking a chance at all.. that sucks.

[Swede]

I think what we can all agree on is that gender roles can be a fucking pain in the ass sometimes.

[haterllnation]

I think what we can all agree on is that gender roles can be a fucking pain in the ass sometimes.

...and that everyone should be gender-neutral? :watson:

[Swede]

Key word being sometimes.

[qwert]

IN person.



Eyes forward, eyes on the prize. Resolute is the perfect word here. It says to her that "you're the best person I can possibly imagine being with right now in the entire school". Huge points.

My last bit of advice.

Almost all women are wonderful and beautiful to the person that they love. There's really very few bad choices out there in terms of people to date as long as you are above the 50% mark to start.(ie the truly evil and ugly ones that you can easily weed out)

What this means is that most any decent women that is in love with you will have much to offer to you. So don't so crazy looking for the perfect person. If some woman wants to date you, don't be so picky.

Or in other terms, even so-so pizza is still a good thing. It's being alone and not dating at all not taking a chance at all.. that sucks.

You sound like a friend of mine. Always has to date someone.

[Samurai_Pooh]

everything that xtine wrote is true.

also: my first date was a bust. the girl was obviously into me, but I have no real attraction to her. Which is sad, because it makes me feel sort of guilty, even though I have nothing to feel bad about.

[Kyletherealninja]

Update: The girl I went on the date with a while ago has told me she's not romantically interested. You know, I'm getting a vague sense of deja-va here... oh yeah! This is what happens to me every time I try something like this!

Oh well. There are lots of cool women in collegeland, right? Right?

...Maybe if I found a girl who actually interested me more often than every four years or so.

[stsparky]

Lads - time is shorter than you think. Don't play coy. Show off your strengths. And be direct to the point.

If you're going to be a playboy - admit it up front. This should get both people's agenda out in the open.

[Samurai_Pooh]

Oh well. There are lots of cool women in collegeland, right? Right?


about as many as there are anywhere else...

[Roxie]

I think what we can all agree on is that gender roles can be a fucking pain in the ass sometimes.
For sure. Gender roles screw things up more than ever help. Ever.
IMO....and that everyone should be gender-neutral? :watson:
I'm thinking you don't really want me to answer that.

[qwert]

Shoot, I just messed up tonight while studying in a study lounge. This one girl I think was into me, but I hesitated when the time came for me to make a move b/c I was trying to figure out the conseuqences/opportunity costs of me making a move at that moment (and was thus in total agony as I stared at my notebook). Why couldn't she give me more time to think before she left? If she would have waited 1 more minute, we would have been the only ones in the study lounge. In the end, I'm still unsure if I made the correct move. See, I go to a very small campus and thus must be absolutely certain and sure in the girl I want to try and date, otherwise it will spell disaster for me and my chances of dating a girl here on campus.

Later this night, I saw another girl that was very attractive. In fact, she sat right next to the computer I am typing at right now. I didn't have the nerve to talk to her though bc I think she didn't find me attractive. =( Freaking acne.

Ah well...I'm spending the time to write this bc I am taking a break from doing school work, which isn't actually due at any time, but I'm feeling fired up right now so I'm just going to continue working problems until I am tired.

Bottom Line: Girls, if you are alone in a safe place with a guy who you like and he is not making a move, give it some time before leaving all flustered because it takes time to think about the opportunity costs, consequences, how to approach, and what to say. For example, I was just going to stare down at my notebook and then say, "So, <her name>, you're in my <class> with me right?" Then I would have taken it from there! That would have been sweet.

[stsparky]

Why are you trying to game these encounters?

Just ask. Communicate your feelings. Succeed or fail, you have no angst to deal with.

[Mastiker]

Ugh. Wasted my time with a girl that ended up going nowhere.

And she's still hung up on me, even though I'm clearly not interested in even talking to her at this point.

[bluestars87]

Shoot, I just messed up tonight while studying in a study lounge. This one girl I think was into me, but I hesitated when the time came for me to make a move b/c I was trying to figure out the conseuqences/opportunity costs of me making a move at that moment (and was thus in total agony as I stared at my notebook). Why couldn't she give me more time to think before she left? If she would have waited 1 more minute, we would have been the only ones in the study lounge. In the end, I'm still unsure if I made the correct move. See, I go to a very small campus and thus must be absolutely certain and sure in the girl I want to try and date, otherwise it will spell disaster for me and my chances of dating a girl here on campus.

Later this night, I saw another girl that was very attractive. In fact, she sat right next to the computer I am typing at right now. I didn't have the nerve to talk to her though bc I think she didn't find me attractive. =( Freaking acne.

Ah well...I'm spending the time to write this bc I am taking a break from doing school work, which isn't actually due at any time, but I'm feeling fired up right now so I'm just going to continue working problems until I am tired.

Bottom Line: Girls, if you are alone in a safe place with a guy who you like and he is not making a move, give it some time before leaving all flustered because it takes time to think about the opportunity costs, consequences, how to approach, and what to say. For example, I was just going to stare down at my notebook and then say, "So, <her name>, you're in my <class> with me right?" Then I would have taken it from there! That would have been sweet.
You messed up pretty bad. Why did you contemplate making a move? Never, ever, ever do that. You clearly wanted to. Don't screw up your confidence by doubting yourself.

Approaching a girl is a mental battle. It's a battle against your own fear...which seems to be the case from your description. Don't be apprehensive. Remember, no woman is too good for anyone ever. Perhaps in some cases where the guy is a jerk, but most girls...most desirable girls in my opinion, won't stick around with those guys in the first place. So please for the love of God don't doubt yourself. Don't act like a girl would be doing you a favor by associating with you. Remember, confidence.

And if there is something about your own appearance you don't like, do your best to change it.

There should be no "thinking" involved. You either want to make a move or you don't. It shouldn't take more than an instant to decide whether you want to proceed. Don't blame the girls. It's all on the guys in this aspect. They shouldn't have to wait for anyone...especially if it's the guy that is into her. If the girl is into the guy and he's not making a move then he clearly isn't interested or lacks the confidence to make a move...and that's probably not a desirable trait a girl wants.

[bluestars87]

Why are you trying to game these encounters?

Just ask. Communicate your feelings. Succeed or fail, you have no angst to deal with.
Yeah that's what I was thinking...talking about opportunity costs and stuff...this isn't D&D.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

Ha, no offense chappies. But why do most of you suck at starting relationships? :D Many of you seem to over-evaluate things...Just do it. Its not a crime to ask somebody out, and there is certainly no shame in being rejected.
Confidence is key, yo!

I think Sparky has spoken alot of sense in this thread.

<- I must also point out that this is coming from a guy dressed up as chick.

[Plekto]

You sound like a friend of mine. Always has to date someone.

No, it's that If you are at the point in your life where you want to date someone, you need to try and try some more.

Stop over-thinking it, stop being wishy-washy, and just ask her.

See, the thing is, women by the time that they are 18(let's keep it legal here - heh) have been thinking and reading and so on about it for 3-4 times longer/more often than most men, so they are about where most men are in their 30s mentally(though emotionally and physically obviously they are still pretty young and new to it all). They cut to the chase and through BS much quicker. Most men in their 30s do as well, btw, which is why us older guys are giving this type of "do it" advice - heh.

We think about cars and video games and sports and so on in our free time and they spend it thinking about their emotions and running possible scenarios in their heads.(be it school, relationships, or whatever). We're still at the "This is all new to me" stage where she's already thought and worked that through years ago.

So they mentally think very matter of fact about it all and figure that well, if you were serious, you'd just ask. Strange as this seems, since if they took a minute to think about it, they'd realize how unlikely most befuddled young men are to actually be that direct.(few people male or female do this though - we tend to think that others should think or realize what we do)

But, since this is all mental and physically and emotionally they're just as new to it as you are. That's why being direct and taking charge, plus a little romance and such, since the years she's spent thinking about it likely make her a bit nostalgic/open to this sort of thing, tends to work.

And, yes, about 20-25% of women will at least go out on a date if you ask them out. (oh and about 50% of men for the women here reading this - heh)

[qwert]

Would I rather forgo taking the risk of asking a much more attractive girl out to cement a relationship with a girl that is less attractive but a for sure, or take the risk with the more attractive girl, which if rejected, I could always fall back on the less attractive girl?

Rule: I cannot date the less attractive one and then decide to try and date the more attractive girl, but can try to ask out the more attractive girl and fall back on the less attractive one if she rejects me. This is for certain reasons, but the reasons are valid. If I went to a huge state school then it wouldn't matter at all, but I don't.

After thinking about it. I made the right decision. =)

So, in my circumstance, thinking through my actions and evaluating the consequences was a smart thing to do.

[bluestars87]

Would I rather forgo taking the risk of asking a much more attractive girl out to cement a relationship with a girl that is less attractive but a for sure, or take the risk with the more attractive girl, which if rejected, I could always fall back on the less attractive girl?

Rule: I cannot date the less attractive one and then decide to try and date the more attractive girl, but can try to ask out the more attractive girl and fall back on the less attractive one if she rejects me. This is for certain reasons, but the reasons are valid. If I went to a huge state school then it wouldn't matter at all, but I don't.

After thinking about it. I made the right decision. =)

So, in my circumstance, thinking through my actions and evaluating the consequences was a smart thing to do.
Keep overthinking then and see what happens.

[Plekto]

Exactly. Chose one and run with it. It'll be clear after a few dates whether it's worth it or not.

[Kyletherealninja]

So my best friend suggested a friend of his who he thinks I would like. She's pretty cute, as well as having similar interests/beliefs/etc. He's going to try to get us together in about two weeks or so, so that's kind of exciting.

[xtine]

This is becoming a "Dear Abby" section, which I find hilarious. (Which was probably the point, but I digress.)

[qwert]

This is becoming a "Dear Abby" section, which I find hilarious. (Which was probably the point, but I digress.)

More like justification for the things we have done.


Which, right now I am kind of pissed due to this one circumstance of this one girl who is being an asshole for some reason that I know, but I find despicable and does not justify her doing so when I also know that I am much smarter and such than the other guy who is acting like a complete asshole as well and that she is just going for the carbon copy.

Yeah. I really do hate this bullshit I have to put up with, but I am fine with it for now I suppose as I can't really do much to change it and the things I am doing is the most I can do.

[Samurai_Pooh]

I had another date, this time with a girl I found semi-attractive. We met over apple cider. Her eyes were naturally different colours! (one blue, the other brown) which I found pretty neat. She had a pretty decent personality too.

She says she had fun and wants to do it again. I hope she was serious! :hat:

[Ceirnian]

This is becoming a "Dear Abby" section, which I find hilarious. (Which was probably the point, but I digress.)

It's worse but that's a close enough comparison.

[stsparky]

It's not as if I'd say suck it up - but you're creating your own problems.

There's nothing wrong with admitting you're new at this and showing you're excited about creating relationships.

Ask the person what their expectations are, then proceed.

[bluestars87]

More like justification for the things we have done.


Which, right now I am kind of pissed due to this one circumstance of this one girl who is being an asshole for some reason that I know, but I find despicable and does not justify her doing so when I also know that I am much smarter and such than the other guy who is acting like a complete asshole as well and that she is just going for the carbon copy.

Yeah. I really do hate this bullshit I have to put up with, but I am fine with it for now I suppose as I can't really do much to change it and the things I am doing is the most I can do.
Why can't you change things? How is this the best you can do? Please enlighten me.

[Plekto]

I had another date, this time with a girl I found semi-attractive. We met over apple cider. Her eyes were naturally different colours! (one blue, the other brown) which I found pretty neat. She had a pretty decent personality too.

She says she had fun and wants to do it again. I hope she was serious! :hat:

Oh, she most likely was(you're probably the first guy she's gone out with in a while). It's the semi-attractive ones that make for good stable relationships and are more likely to lead to a good time together, because they are the kind that often have more attractive things under the surface to find out about.

The two color eyes is also cool - :) Have fun!

[bluestars87]

Hung out with a girl today in one of my painting classes. We took a little field trip to a gallery in downtown San Francisco. So I was talking with her most of the time about everything. We're both nerdy in some ways. Talked about what anime we liked, both had an interest in video games. Japanese girl that doesn't speak a word of Japanese. We both had a laugh about that. Everything clicked. Had lunch together too. But there's just one thing and I'm probably going to sound like a jerk for this, but...

I just don't find her that attractive. I know, I'm an asshole, but I'm at least being honest. She seems like a really good person though.

I thought about this later again when I was coming home on the bus. There are these three girls that I usually see that are around my age and I guess they live close to where I'm staying for the time being, which is at my aunt's house. One or two of them are really cute, but oh my goodness, shut the hell up! I had to put my iPod on maximum volume so I wouldn't hear their booming conversations, which all seemed to be like a clone of Clueless. Now I know why the valley girl stereotype is made fun of so much. I've never, ever seen it as bad to this degree. The bus driver even looked back at me and gave me a look like "what the fuck is wrong with these girls?"

Glitz and glamor definitely aren't everything. I could not imagine dating one of those girls, no matter how pretty they are.

[qwert]

ok.

[japanat]

Would I rather forgo taking the risk of asking a much more attractive girl out to cement a relationship with a girl that is less attractive but a for sure, or take the risk with the more attractive girl, which if rejected, I could always fall back on the less attractive girl?What, you're going to keep her as a fall-back option? Insulting, no?

Go for the girl you are interested in. Period. Don't settle, that just leads to wandering eyes later and gives you a much higher chance of breaking up later. But don't go for a lady just because she has a hot body, when she has the personality of a pit-bull.

I never settled. Uh-uh, no way. The women I dated were attractive to me, mentally, physically, temperamentally. Whether they were attractive to others was immaterial (although they were usually objectively pretty hot ;) ).

And as Sparky and Vic say, just go for it. I went for a young lady who everyone thought was way out of my league when I was in HS (cheerleader who didn't act like one at all), and was happily stunned when she said yes. We dated for quite a while, and I was a happy camper.

If you want to date someone, ask them! Then either enjoy your success, or deal with the rejection with grace, and move on.

[xtine]

What, you're going to keep her as a fall-back option? Insulting, no?


From reading posts, it seems Orange likes to rank, speculate, and treat potential mates like objects. Most intelligent girls will see right through this. Hopefully someone wises up in time.

[bluestars87]

From reading posts, it seems Orange likes to rank, speculate, and treat potential mates like objects. Most intelligent girls will see right through this. Hopefully someone wises up in time.
The guy seems to have his mind set on that kind of philosophy. And like you said, women will probably see right through that. I remember a simple, yet effective phrase which is quite wise when it comes to this thing...yet people forget how logical it is when it's so simple to realize:

"Women are people too".

[Roxie]

From reading posts, it seems Orange likes to rank, speculate, and treat potential mates like objects. Most intelligent girls will see right through this. Hopefully someone wises up in time.
you have no idea.

squick.

[Stephy]

From reading posts, it seems Orange likes to rank, speculate, and treat potential mates like objects. Most intelligent girls will see right through this. Hopefully someone wises up in time.
Quite funny that you would mention this just from his posts ... you should see his messages through IM. He is always like this! :P

No offense Orange :yes: but you're driving me crazy on Skype and I told you that! :knockout: Crazy ;p

Um to contribute to the thread, um... hm something simple: a lot of girls have long lashes, well mascara helps, but do guys actually care about that? I have like invisible lashes (blond) and mascara annoys me. :]

[TygressVirgo]

Why do people settle? Why do people settle for less than what they want?

[Roxie]

Because they are too scared to be alone.

[Samurai_Pooh]

I would settle for something temporary and physical, as long as there was no confusion about the terms of the relationship.

in fact, that may be an approaching possibility for me :watson:

[TygressVirgo]

The question has been bothering me for sometime. I have two amazing girlfriends who are just settling for asses.

Friend #1 - was dating a guy for 2yrs or so, they had a decent relationship, she did everything with him, got close to his family, gave him space when he needed it. He on the other hand, took space when he went on his "sports career trips", wanted all of her time, rarely met any of her friends or family. After he broke up with her, he kept calling her, keeping her on the fringe of his life. Now they are hooking up :bang: I know I can't control my friend, and its her life, but I see that it hurts her. She knows that it hurts her, and that she is worth so much more. Yet she wont reach for.

Friend 2 - as always been kind of shy, pretty, but not the type of girl guys notice right off the bat as date material (i guess). She meets this guy at work, who turns out to be dating a 30 yr old. Well the guys ends up dating my friend while breaking things off with his gf. This process takes about two months, while he is breaking up with the gf, the gf goes off her pills and gets preggo. My friend said she was done with the guy, after hearing his "good" news, and later ends up with him again when the gf thinks she miscarries. Not only that, but the guy seems to be a leech, she pays for everything.

I want to be understanding, I want to be supportive, I want to give back to my friends what they have given to me over my recent break-up with my ex. I do not say my thoughts to my friends, but i cant help thinking them. Any suggestions, cause I sometimes wonder if my thoughts are just offbase?

These two are just the tip of the iceberg on the whole settling thing.

[xtine]

I want to be understanding, I want to be supportive, I want to give back to my friends what they have given to me over my recent break-up with my ex. I do not say my thoughts to my friends, but i cant help thinking them. Any suggestions, cause I sometimes wonder if my thoughts are just offbase?

These two are just the tip of the iceberg on the whole settling thing.

Having been in one of those relationships where you "settle for someone lower than you," unfortunately in most cases there is nothing you can do. If someone latches on to a destructive relationship, usually they are doing so with rose-colored classes. Even things said by very close friends and family cannot stop them.

They have to see it for themselves, and they for themselves have to take the initiative to get out of a bad relationship. If they didn't listen the first 5 times you told them that it was a bad idea, chances are the next 100 times they will not listen until they are completely over it.

As a friend really, all you can do is listen and be supportive, but ultimately they are the only control over their own lives. :/

[TygressVirgo]

*snip*
As a friend really, all you can do is listen and be supportive, but ultimately they are the only control over their own lives. :/

Thanks, I just feel like this :bang: :box: :duh: and doing this :frypan:

I guess part of the problem is that I just got out of a relationship where I wasn't valued until I left it. I was able to get out, to know I was worth more than what I was being given. Just hurts to see my friends not be able to do it, when I know they could.

Quick question: Does anyone else think the "hooking up" culture is hurting the chance for a relationship with someone?

[Plekto]

The guy seems to have his mind set on that kind of philosophy. And like you said, women will probably see right through that.

Correct. This was rule #4 of mine as well. Men are utterly and com-fucking-pletely transparent to women until they are at least in their 30s. Don't try, don't rationalize it - don't even think for a nanosecond that you can hide or play games with them and get away with it for very long.

I can't stress how transparent young men are. Really. And this is in addition to the other part of this rule. That people are five times more observant of you than you think they are. This is a general rule of life. For young men, though, and their girlfriend... make that 25 times or more.

So the answer to his question is... I'll repeat myself. Go with one and stick with it until you are done with it. Then try another. It really doesn't matter which one, either.

Rule #5. Most people talk about "the one" or some other nonsense. The reality is that there are only 50-100 or so main personality types. Most of these though are small variations from each other. So the typical person has a few that are similar and a few that are opposite that they are most attracted to. So if you actually date 20-30 people or so, you're very likely to actually find a near perfect match. It's not like the TV shows and books make it out to be.

Otherwise if we were really that picky about potential mates, the human race wouldn't have survived.

***
So get out there, pick any woman that you find attractive, and go for it. Then date another. And so on. Some will last months, some will last days. It's all part of the learning experience. And each relationship makes you a bit better as well at it.

[bluestars87]

The question has been bothering me for sometime. I have two amazing girlfriends who are just settling for asses.

Friend #1 - was dating a guy for 2yrs or so, they had a decent relationship, she did everything with him, got close to his family, gave him space when he needed it. He on the other hand, took space when he went on his "sports career trips", wanted all of her time, rarely met any of her friends or family. After he broke up with her, he kept calling her, keeping her on the fringe of his life. Now they are hooking up :bang: I know I can't control my friend, and its her life, but I see that it hurts her. She knows that it hurts her, and that she is worth so much more. Yet she wont reach for.

Friend 2 - as always been kind of shy, pretty, but not the type of girl guys notice right off the bat as date material (i guess). She meets this guy at work, who turns out to be dating a 30 yr old. Well the guys ends up dating my friend while breaking things off with his gf. This process takes about two months, while he is breaking up with the gf, the gf goes off her pills and gets preggo. My friend said she was done with the guy, after hearing his "good" news, and later ends up with him again when the gf thinks she miscarries. Not only that, but the guy seems to be a leech, she pays for everything.

I want to be understanding, I want to be supportive, I want to give back to my friends what they have given to me over my recent break-up with my ex. I do not say my thoughts to my friends, but i cant help thinking them. Any suggestions, cause I sometimes wonder if my thoughts are just offbase?

These two are just the tip of the iceberg on the whole settling thing.
From your side of the story, both of your friends sound really desperate. Have they not had much success with relationships or something?

[TygressVirgo]

Um, you do have a point, bluestars87. I think they have had very few healthy relationships. Although I wouldn't classify them as desperate, rather that as roxie said, afraid to be alone. Is being alone such a scary thing?

[bluestars87]

Um, you do have a point, bluestars87. I think they have had very few healthy relationships. Although I wouldn't classify them as desperate, rather that as roxie said, afraid to be alone. Is being alone such a scary thing?
Afraid to be alone. Well, no I guess it's not a bad thing. But it depends on the person. I'm alone, and it does get lonely at times but I do also realize that it's not the end of the world...and I'm generally happy.

Were your friends not happy with themselves when they were alone or something? Because depending on someone else to make you happy just isn't a logical thing. You should be happy with yourself first...and being with someone else should only amplify your already existing happiness.

Is there a difference between being desperate and afraid of being alone?

[qwert]

Quite funny that you would mention this just from his posts ... you should see his messages through IM. He is always like this! :P

No offense Orange :yes: but you're driving me crazy on Skype and I told you that! :knockout: Crazy ;p

Um to contribute to the thread, um... hm something simple: a lot of girls have long lashes, well mascara helps, but do guys actually care about that? I have like invisible lashes (blond) and mascara annoys me. :]

Depends on the over all look.

And about me calculating who I choose, I really could care less. I don't go around dating girls willy-nilly or trying to flirt with every girl I find attractive, and I would rather not be in a relationship than in one where I'm not getting anything out of it. In the pasts 2 and something years of college, I have only asked out 3 girls, and dated one. In all cases, it ended up the girl already had a bf (a real one, even the one I dated who actually really liked me for a week or so until I learned of her "other bf").

Quite frankly, I don't have the time to date girls that I only like somewhat. Make friends with them? Sure, but not date them. That is a whole 'nother level. I only go for the girls I find that I genuinely like for the whole person.

So fuck you all who say I should just date whoever I want. Seriously, school (& having fun without a gf) takes all my time.

btw, this clips rocks so hard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwnsz0WqHp0&feature=related

God damn, makes me want to smoke a post coital cigar like that.

[bluestars87]

So fuck you all who say I should just date whoever I want. Seriously, school (& having fun without a gf) takes all my time.
Why would you not date whoever you want? It's really quite simple. There is someone you find attractive, and like a lot of aspects about their persona after you get to know them a little bit and then you try asking them out.

If you're so busy, then perhaps you're just not ready for a relationship at all. You seem pretty happy with school and having fun without a girlfriend.

[qwert]

Why would you not date whoever you want? It's really quite simple. There is someone you find attractive, and like a lot of aspects about their persona after you get to know them a little bit and then you try asking them out.

If you're so busy, then perhaps you're just not ready for a relationship at all. You seem pretty happy with school and having fun without a girlfriend.

Yup. Just on my down time I think, "man it would be awesome to have a girl to hang with right now. Kind of bored hanging out and shooting the bull with the guys and their girlfriends. Why don't I have one?"

Not that I want a trophy girlfriend, although I am conscious on how I am perceived according to the success and looks of my girlfriend, but I try to not let that guide me bc I realized that I am a shithead for doing so and I am totally against being an asshole. God damn, we need more altruism. I think we are all guilty of it. Fucking world is so god damn shallow without getting into the essence of people. Everyone does it. I don't care who you are. You do it. /rant/lunatic

The internet turns me into an asshole.

Why can't I have that? I deserve that! That should be me. God damn fucking loser. So much bullshit. Telling me they are good people when really they are just shooting the bull.

[bluestars87]

Yup. Just on my down time I think, "man it would be awesome to have a girl to hang with right now. Kind of bored hanging out and shooting the bull with the guys and their girlfriends. Why don't I have one?"
Oh. Well then no worries then if that's the only problem.

[qwert]

Oh. Well then no worries then if that's the only problem.

Ah, but you see, I think I realize now that I want a gf for personal reasons, but I think I also do want a trophy girlfriend. Why can't I have a trophy girlfriend while liking her as well and such?

For some reason I am flawed as I always feel like I have to win, and when I don't I get depressed and angry. Always thinking of how others perceive me or how others are better. When I see guys with girls I think I should have, I feel like they don't deserve her and that I should have her. Only reason why I can't bc I have some horrible ass acne. Bah. Unfair.

But when I do win, I feel so fucking awesome. Win isn't about money, win is about pride, respect, intelligence, doing something awesome that others look at me and go, "man, <name> is a really successful person. He has value."

[Stephy]

Are you super hot, Orange?

[qwert]

Are you super hot, Orange?

nope.

btw, I tend to edit stuff to death after I post.

[xtine]

God damn, we need more altruism.

...I would rather not be in a relationship than in one where I'm not getting anything out of it.

You seem very unsure of yourself to contradict yourself so easily like that. If you want a quality girl, improve yourself and be happy and confident. Quality girls do not like hanging around unhappy guys. Being nervous and uncertain about things != confidence. And confidence is key. Girls are able to read emotions and body languages (usually subconsciously without knowing) a lot more than guys do. That is usually why people say the old cliche "can't love someone else without loving yourself."

Even if you are 90% confident and 10% nervous, a girl can still easily sense that 10% and walk away because of it. That is why generally the men and women with more experience in this forum advise the dating/relationship fledglings to approach as many women as they can. Not necessarily even to approach to date, but approach and mingle and chat and get to know women better so they truly become less and less nervous. The more you avoid contact with women, the more you may regress social experience with them.

I personally believe personal happiness and belief in your own self worth (confidence) can attract quality women more than money, status, power, sports car, etc. ever could.

[Ceirnian]

I personally believe personal happiness and belief in your own self worth (confidence) can attract quality women more than money, status, power, sports car, etc. ever could.

Define "quality women".

[xtine]

Define "quality women".

Do I really need to? If I say the typical: intelligent, successful, attractive, fun, etc. then chances are someone extremely cynical will flip it to say that even "quality women" date jerks to try to refute everything that I have said.

However I tend to believe if you are delusional to be set in the mindset that "all [insert whatever types] women date jerks" then chances are you aren't doing too well with the ladies and decide to take our your own personal life frustrations upon the women and/or the jerks (the men you are secretly jealous of).

[bluestars87]

Ah, but you see, I think I realize now that I want a gf for personal reasons, but I think I also do want a trophy girlfriend. Why can't I have a trophy girlfriend while liking her as well and such?

For some reason I am flawed as I always feel like I have to win, and when I don't I get depressed and angry. Always thinking of how others perceive me or how others are better. When I see guys with girls I think I should have, I feel like they don't deserve her and that I should have her. Only reason why I can't bc I have some horrible ass acne. Bah. Unfair.

But when I do win, I feel so fucking awesome. Win isn't about money, win is about pride, respect, intelligence, doing something awesome that others look at me and go, "man, <name> is a really successful person. He has value."
Have you tried Proactiv?

Anyways, I really don't get your agenda. It's quite simple. You meet a girl via class or work that seems interesting and you're also physically attracted to. If you guys have great chemistry, then you attempt to go further by asking her out, to speak figuratively. If you don't, no big deal. Trophy girlfriend? What? If you're referring to really attractive women then try talking to girls that fit that mold...if you don't them just try striking up a conversation. Is acne the only problem?

[xtine]

Only reason why I can't bc I have some horrible ass acne. Bah. Unfair.

You know, at first I thought he meant he couldn't get chicks because he had an outbreak of acne on his butt. :duh:

[Roxie]

Quick question: Does anyone else think the "hooking up" culture is hurting the chance for a relationship with someone?
It can only "hurt" a chance at a relationship if one of the two people are expecting greater things than the other.

If one's expectations are greater than the reality of situation, it's a guaranteed recipe for hurt. I think they have had very few healthy relationships. Although I wouldn't classify them as desperate, rather that as roxie said, afraid to be alone. Is being alone such a scary thing?
No, it's not such a scary thing, but the idea can be.

Also, there is the "I've put so much time into this relationship, I don't want to waste all that work by breaking up"

And, "it'll get better" or "he'll change"

All untruths that most people have to (unfortunately) live through before realizing they are wasting their very precious time and energy on someone who really is not worthy of it.

I've been in your situation and it's true, there's nothing you can do to TRULY make them see. However, I found that telling my friends that just "love" isn't enough. What is love without respect/honesty/etc?

or telling to listen to their partner's actions. actions speak louder than words (cliche, but TRUE). What're their partners actions saying? Do their actions match that of a good partner? Or someone who really cares for them, respects them?

Typically they cannot help but to take pause at hearing these ideas

However, they will NOT break up with the person right away and won't until they can realize they could really be this miserable all by themselves and this other person isn't needed for that!

It sucks b/c you'll have to hear about the same shitty behavior over and over and over again (about their guys). At that point, when you're fucking exhausted with telling them how bad these guys are for them (and how they could do SO much better), I would usually say, "Well, that's your boyfriend!" Meaning, "well, that's the guy you continue to choose to be with despite him acting like you don't matter. I'm tired of wasting my breathe telling you otherwise, so I'm just going to remind you of the choices you made and the one you have yet to make"

But all you can do is plant the seed

[erbiumfiber]

And, even if you can't do any better and you end up being alone for a while, isn't it better to be alone than in a lousy relationship?

Sadly, for some people, the answer is "no." I guess everyone has to make his/her own choices.

Edit: Ah, I skipped a few messages, I see a lot of people have the same thoughts...

And I do think the culture of "hooking up" does hurt chances for a real relationship. Because there are some people who simply won't put the effort into making a relationship if they can get all the sex they want without that effort. Although I have to say that AIDS really DID change the dating culture a lot. When I was in high school and college, there was no AIDS (I guess it was known by the time I graduated college but I don't think it had really become an issue yet in the heterosexual world). So people were hooking up right and left... then people got scared (with less "hooking up") followed by people not being scared once there was a somewhat viable treatment for AIDS and fewer people were dying (followed again by higher rates of "hooking up").

Oh and acne note: my daughter had a bad time with this and what really worked were antibiotics. Yeah, probably not the greatest thing to have to do to your body long-term (she was on them -doxycycline I think- for several years). But they're pretty effective. I think she also used some skin cream with retin-A and a bunch of benzoyl peroxide. Not sure I'm spelling anything correctly here. Even as a vegan eating incredibly healthy food and getting a lot of exercise, she still has trouble with her skin. She no longer will use all of these "unnatural" remedies and she's almost twenty so hopefully is growing out of it anyway.

[Swede]

Um to contribute to the thread, um... hm something simple: a lot of girls have long lashes, well mascara helps, but do guys actually care about that? I have like invisible lashes (blond) and mascara annoys me. :]

Not in the slightest. While mascara or whatever can have its place and works for some girls, I don't think it will ever, ever, be the deciding factor. I've never heard a guy say or thought to myself "Oh man, did you see the eyelashes on that girl?". Your eyelashes are probably much more likely to be judged by other women than by any guy.

So, no worries :)

Personally, I like girls with as little makeup as possible. If she can look pretty without making herself up to look like a clown, it makes her more approachable and simply from appearances she looks less superficial... :watson:

You know, at first I thought he meant he couldn't get chicks because he had an outbreak of acne on his butt. :duh:

l.o.fucking.l.

[sOkU]

Only reason why I can't bc I have some horrible ass acne. Bah. Unfair.


Wrong. The only reason you THINK you can't is because you have "horrible ass acne".

Plenty of my friends have bad acne yet they still manage to get "hot" girls.

[Kyletherealninja]

I agree with Swede, girls who keep it simple when it comes to makeup look a lot better than those who pile it on.

Luckily I skipped the acne bullet. Both of my younger bros had trouble with it, but I never encountered more than the occasional pimple, I guess.

[qwert]

And, even if you can't do any better and you end up being alone for a while, isn't it better to be alone than in a lousy relationship?

Sadly, for some people, the answer is "no." I guess everyone has to make his/her own choices.

Edit: Ah, I skipped a few messages, I see a lot of people have the same thoughts...

And I do think the culture of "hooking up" does hurt chances for a real relationship. Because there are some people who simply won't put the effort into making a relationship if they can get all the sex they want without that effort. Although I have to say that AIDS really DID change the dating culture a lot. When I was in high school and college, there was no AIDS (I guess it was known by the time I graduated college but I don't think it had really become an issue yet in the heterosexual world). So people were hooking up right and left... then people got scared (with less "hooking up") followed by people not being scared once there was a somewhat viable treatment for AIDS and fewer people were dying (followed again by higher rates of "hooking up").

Oh and acne note: my daughter had a bad time with this and what really worked were antibiotics. Yeah, probably not the greatest thing to have to do to your body long-term (she was on them -doxycycline I think- for several years). But they're pretty effective. I think she also used some skin cream with retin-A and a bunch of benzoyl peroxide. Not sure I'm spelling anything correctly here. Even as a vegan eating incredibly healthy food and getting a lot of exercise, she still has trouble with her skin. She no longer will use all of these "unnatural" remedies and she's almost twenty so hopefully is growing out of it anyway.

yeah, I've been on those before. The only thing that seems to work is accutane, but I have done 3 6month sessions with that and my acne still comes back and during, my skin sucks. My derm actually thinks I will have to take acne for the rest of my life. Another derm said the thing for my sister. My dad had acne until his 30s!

Not to mention that I used to have really thick hair, and now the hair stylist always say I have fine hair...what? Depressing. I hope it comes back.

[stsparky]

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/tiny/2008/tiny080918.gif

Heh.

[Samurai_Pooh]

I am so so glad I am over that acne stage. It last about from ages 15-18, and it was bad, REAL bad.

Speaking of hair, mine has always been fine, and now it appears to be thinning somewhat. :box:

The good news just never stops! :clap:

[Swede]

I never really got acne... The worst that ever really happened was I thought I had a zit, but it turned out I just cut myself shaving.

Protip: If you cut yourself shaving, don't try to pop it. Bad idea.

Now that I don't suck at shaving things work out pretty well though.

For people who do have acne, don't sweat it. I know plenty of people who do great with the opposite sex despite having skin problems. Like others have said, it's all about confidence and being comfortable with yourself. Play to your strengths, chances are people can overlook things like that.

/enter livejournal mode


As for my current situation, things are still looking good methinks... Didn't have a chance to talk to her for a little bit cause her phone was acting wonky (seriously :P), but I got in touch with her recently and she sounds excited to see me again. :) We were going to get lunch today, but it would have only been for like half an hour, and we both agreed that'd be a little too rushed. She said she wanted more time with me than that :innocent:

Anyway, we'll both be seeing each other Saturday since we're working at a peace exhibit, and we'll probably meet up for lunch or something next week too... Just trying to be myself and let things progress naturally right now... My only worries now are getting trapped in the friend zone, but I think things are shaping up well :D

[Roxie]

So, I dunno..maybe I'm not as social as I thought.

In my experience with guys who I don't know they treat me in rather predictable, dissapointingly shallow ways:

1. I'm ignored. Clipped answers, the least amount of attention paid.

2. They want something from me..typically help in class (I call this the Hermoine treatment.

3. Very heavily gendered treatment

It has been my rare experience that I'm treated with equal respect, equal interest, or as if I wouldn't be smart enough to see through things.

Anyway...so this leads to a really frustrating problem.

It seems that nearly any and every time a man treats me as an equal, talks *to* me, and asks me questions about myself--I develop a crush.

THANKS REASONABLY ATTRACTIVE NEW MALE CO-WORKER FOR ASKING ME QUESTiONS AND SHIT, FUCK!

I hate it cause it says many things about myself.

[Swede]

I vote you stick it to gender roles and ask him out.

[Samurai_Pooh]

I hate it cause it says many things about myself.

uh, like that you enjoy being treated as a human being worthy of attention?

[xtine]

I hate it cause it says many things about myself.

It says you have standards. :)
Would you *want* to like someone that treats you poorly? You said for yourself there are occasionally the gentleman that treats you nicely, and you develop a crush. At the most fundamental level you are attracted to someone that treats you kindly, and that is a good thing to have.

Like a previous poster, you don't want to to end up settling, and that is undoubtedly a good thing.

[Roxie]

uh, like that you enjoy being treated as a human being worthy of attention?
Well yeah, but
It says you have standards. :)
Would you *want* to like someone that treats you poorly?
Well, no..but, You said for yourself there are occasionally the gentleman that treats you nicely, and you develop a crush. At the most fundamental level you are attracted to someone that treats you kindly, and that is a good thing to have.

Like a previous poster, you don't want to to end up settling, and that is undoubtedly a good thing.
True yes...but what I meant was it turns every guy who turns treats me like person, I like. This is really frustrating. I respond to actual nice guys, who are not showing any romantic interest, with romantic interest!...for no real reason! I mean, this isn't special treatment!

Also, it says I meet a lot of assholes who are male. And I don't think all males are assholes. THEY FIND ME :box:

edit: fixed

[Swede]

Also, it says I meat a lot of assholes who are male. And I don't think all males are assholes. THEY FIND ME :box:

Some sort of Freudian slip methinks.

[Plekto]

Anyway, we'll both be seeing each other Saturday since we're working at a peace exhibit, and we'll probably meet up for lunch or something next week too... Just trying to be myself and let things progress naturally right now... My only worries now are getting trapped in the friend zone, but I think things are shaping up well :D

So go on the date/hang out with her. Then at the end make a point of asking her out (next time) for real on a "date". Use that exact word. Now is the time to make it clear and set the groundwork that you're interested in something real and have no intention of just being a "friend".

My instinct here says that she's not going to say no if you ask.

[ellie]

To put it succinctly:

My little sister recently lost her virginity. The dude she lost it to is now being a dick, but also my little sister is also perhaps being slightly clingy. I want to give her the best advice possible, but I don't want to give her examples from my personal life too much because my own lives' examples are often less than stellar. Anyone have any spectacular insights or wisdom for a kid who is in love with her a boy who loves her less?

[bluestars87]

To put it succinctly:

My little sister recently lost her virginity. The dude she lost it to is now being a dick, but also my little sister is also perhaps being slightly clingy. I want to give her the best advice possible, but I don't want to give her examples from my personal life too much because my own lives' examples are often less than stellar. Anyone have any spectacular insights or wisdom for a kid who is in love with her a boy who loves her less?
Let her learn the hard way? You can only do so much.

[Roxie]

To put it succinctly:

My little sister recently lost her virginity. The dude she lost it to is now being a dick, but also my little sister is also perhaps being slightly clingy. I want to give her the best advice possible, but I don't want to give her examples from my personal life too much because my own lives' examples are often less than stellar. Anyone have any spectacular insights or wisdom for a kid who is in love with her a boy who loves her less?
Just b/c you may have had bad experiences doesn't mean that your experiences aren't worth learning from...thus the phrase "learn from my mistakes".

From what little info you've given it sounds like a problem of self-worth which is a very hard lesson to learn.

[Samurai_Pooh]

To put it succinctly:

My little sister recently lost her virginity. The dude she lost it to is now being a dick, but also my little sister is also perhaps being slightly clingy. I want to give her the best advice possible, but I don't want to give her examples from my personal life too much because my own lives' examples are often less than stellar. Anyone have any spectacular insights or wisdom for a kid who is in love with her a boy who loves her less?

tell her to make sure he wears protection

also, stay away from one-night stand situations if she wants a relationship with a dude. I often hear of girls who make is so easy for the guy to get sex in the hopes that he will want more, but why would he buy the cow when he is getting the milk for free to give a rather simplistic analogy. (not saying that is what happened with your sister, but just keep it in mind)

[Swede]

Well. Things were looking very, very good I thought. We spent most of the day together at that peace exhibit, got to know each other some more and all that. Later the next week we had lunch together, also went really well, nice conversation and all that. We were supposed to go out last weekend and she sounded excited and everything, but the day of she wasn't feeling well so we postponed it.

Now, tonight, I was meeting with some people we both know to discuss some things, she shows up a little later towards the end of our meeting. Afterward everyone is just talking and everything, I'm getting to know one of her friends from high school, and then.... I hear her friend point someone out. "Who's that?" I say.



Oh, her boyfriend. Right.


Fucking why. Everything between us goes so well, in the time we've spent I've found nothing about her that I don't like, and then this. It always has to be something. I suppose I should have, you know, checked on that, the one obvious fucking thing that could put a damper on this, but I hadn't seen anything at all to suggest it so I assumed.

So, now what, OP9. I still like her. A lot. More than I've ever liked anyone. I don't see that changing. I don't feel like giving up. But, boyfriend. This fucking sucks.

[Duke Luke of Juke]

This is a rude thing to say, but I've noticed that for most people in college (note that I didn't say all) having a girlfriend or boyfriend doesn't really mean a whole lot. I've met a few girls over the last year or so that were ready to leave their boyfriends by the time we really got to know one another (I'm not claiming that I brought them to that point, I'm just saying that they weren't committed to their relationships anymore during the period I was flirting with them--I didn't know they had boyfriends at the time, well at least not with one of them lol).

The unfortunate thing, though, is that it works both ways. If they're not committed to their old boyfriend, there's nothing saying they'll be committed to you if they make that switch.

In my opinion though Swede, it's possible that she's just having friendly rendezvous with you--but also quite likely (imo) that she's testing the waters with you, and considering leaving the boyfriend.

[Plekto]

No ring? Fair game.

More than half of all people meet their husband/wife/etc when they are in a relationship with another person.

If she's hanging out with you AT ALL, she's still looking and if you can make a better offer to her, well, she'll leave the other guy. Simple as that. Oh - and I've taken away several women like this from their relationships. It's often not as difficult as it seems. And since change is generally good for people, if it doesn't work out, you at least saved her form a dead-end relationship with the previous guy(she knows this or else she'd be not hanging out with you).

[bluestars87]

Well. Things were looking very, very good I thought. We spent most of the day together at that peace exhibit, got to know each other some more and all that. Later the next week we had lunch together, also went really well, nice conversation and all that. We were supposed to go out last weekend and she sounded excited and everything, but the day of she wasn't feeling well so we postponed it.

Now, tonight, I was meeting with some people we both know to discuss some things, she shows up a little later towards the end of our meeting. Afterward everyone is just talking and everything, I'm getting to know one of her friends from high school, and then.... I hear her friend point someone out. "Who's that?" I say.



Oh, her boyfriend. Right.


Fucking why. Everything between us goes so well, in the time we've spent I've found nothing about her that I don't like, and then this. It always has to be something. I suppose I should have, you know, checked on that, the one obvious fucking thing that could put a damper on this, but I hadn't seen anything at all to suggest it so I assumed.

So, now what, OP9. I still like her. A lot. More than I've ever liked anyone. I don't see that changing. I don't feel like giving up. But, boyfriend. This fucking sucks.
Move on. The faster the better. You may want to avoid her since obviously being around her will make you feel worse. I mean that's what I might consider if I REALLY like a girl...and it has helped.

But really, you should have checked if she had a boyfriend way back. Like maybe the second time you interacted with her so you can get that out of the way. That's something I try to solve early on.

[bluestars87]

This is a rude thing to say, but I've noticed that for most people in college (note that I didn't say all) having a girlfriend or boyfriend doesn't really mean a whole lot. I've met a few girls over the last year or so that were ready to leave their boyfriends by the time we really got to know one another (I'm not claiming that I brought them to that point, I'm just saying that they weren't committed to their relationships anymore during the period I was flirting with them--I didn't know they had boyfriends at the time, well at least not with one of them lol).

The unfortunate thing, though, is that it works both ways. If they're not committed to their old boyfriend, there's nothing saying they'll be committed to you if they make that switch.

In my opinion though Swede, it's possible that she's just having friendly rendezvous with you--but also quite likely (imo) that she's testing the waters with you, and considering leaving the boyfriend.
This is true. But sometimes that all requires patience, waiting to see what she's gonna do, etc. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to avoid that entire mess as soon as I hear about it...I'd rather spend my time talking to another girl that's probably single than toying with one that's in a relationship...no matter how much they're committed...it's still harder in my opinion to try to break that wall down. Unless you have mad game skills of course.

[Swede]

Thanks for the advice, always appreciated.

I think right now I'm just going to go out with her as we were planning anyway, even if she was probably seeing it in a different context than I was. I like being with her, current events don't change that. I'll just keep talking to her like I have been, try to bring up the boyfriend issue at some point to see how serious it is or whatever.

Definitely feeling better about this than I was initially though. Like you guys were saying, no ring, only a boyfriend, so I'm not out yet.


Blue, thanks for the advice, but that's really just not how I roll. I'm not going to just go into hiding from her cause I found out she has a boyfriend. You're right that I should have probably checked earlier, but it wasn't ever something that came up in our conversation so I didn't want to force it, especially when the conversations have been going well enough that I haven't even had to resort to the typical interviewing type of stuff that usually seems to happen.

Also, I know what you're saying about moving on to find someone with less difficulty, but basically I don't want to. :P I like her, so that's who I'm going for. The one thing I'll never, ever do is settle for someone other than who I want. Yes, that means that I'm going to be single more often than not, but as I think someone said earlier, it's not fair to me or the girl I'm settling for if I'm not interested in them. I've never been the type of person who feels like they have to be in a relationship in order to be happy, so I sort of just live my life until I meet someone who interests me. Such an occasion seems to be relatively rare, so I'm trying to make it work for once.

[Plekto]

Awesome attitude there. I'm sure that's what she sees in you that's keeping her interested.

To the others who have relationship issues from time to time: This is the attitude to have. If she knows you only have eyes for her and are intent on winning her over, it's a huge advantage that you have over the other guy who likely is taking her for granted or going through the motions.

Get in there, get what you want, and win(or at least try your ass off). Plus, if you try your hardest and it still doesn't work, you've at least got that - no regrets. It's like running a race. There's no shame in coming in 2nd or 3rd if you gave it your best effort. This "oh - jshe has a boyfriend..." yeah, that's like going to the pub instead of the track meet because you know you won't get first place. (and who knows, like what happened in the Olympics couple of months ago, the favored person could trip and fall)

P.S. that was a nasty face-plant in the Hurdles.

[Samurai_Pooh]

Swede, just don't become her emotional tampon she uses whenever her boyfriend is being mean or ignoring her or w/e. I've seen it happen too many times dammit.

[japanat]

This is true. But sometimes that all requires patience, waiting to see what she's gonna do, etc. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to avoid that entire mess as soon as I hear about it...I'd rather spend my time talking to another girl that's probably single than toying with one that's in a relationship...no matter how much they're committed...it's still harder in my opinion to try to break that wall down. Unless you have mad game skills of course.I don't have mad game skills, but I'm 3-for-3 on the takeaway. All three ladies were going out and doing things with me, then I find out about the boyfriend. My reaction every time was the same: "Oh, OK, no problem. I won't push. But if you change your mind..."

They did.


If they're hanging out with you, then either their relationship is shaky, or so solid that they don't need to worry. Either way, pushing isn't a good idea. Let them know how you feel, then just relax. Oh, and none of them (including my wife, btw) cheated on me.

[Swede]

Just want to say again I really appreciate all the advice you guys have given, it's helped a lot :)

[RoxFontaine]

Of course, Huffington Post has the quote...

"The notion that somehow because I am a man I don't know how to raise two kids on my own," he says, "I know what its like to raise a child where you are not sure he's going to make it."

[Swede]

Wrong thread? Or am I missing something?

[bluestars87]

Blue, thanks for the advice, but that's really just not how I roll. I'm not going to just go into hiding from her cause I found out she has a boyfriend. You're right that I should have probably checked earlier, but it wasn't ever something that came up in our conversation so I didn't want to force it, especially when the conversations have been going well enough that I haven't even had to resort to the typical interviewing type of stuff that usually seems to happen.

Well you don't have to "force" the issue. What I always do is say something right after the weekend has ended or is about to begin:

"So what are you doing this weekend? Gonna stay in do some homework, see a movie, hang out with your boyfriend...what are your plans?"

Assume she has one. If she doesn't then she'll say something like:

"Hunh? What are you talking about? I don't have a boyfriend".

And obviously if she replies like normal then that means she has a boyfriend. Works every single time for me. Doesn't make anything awkward or screw stuff up. It's way better than conversing with a girl and getting along and then you find out she has a boyfriend way later.

Also, I know what you're saying about moving on to find someone with less difficulty, but basically I don't want to. :P I like her, so that's who I'm going for. The one thing I'll never, ever do is settle for someone other than who I want. Yes, that means that I'm going to be single more often than not, but as I think someone said earlier, it's not fair to me or the girl I'm settling for if I'm not interested in them. I've never been the type of person who feels like they have to be in a relationship in order to be happy, so I sort of just live my life until I meet someone who interests me. Such an occasion seems to be relatively rare, so I'm trying to make it work for once.

Okay. Well suit yourself. I just don't linger after a while. Why? Because there plenty of fish in the sea and life is too short. That's how I see it.

[bluestars87]

I don't have mad game skills, but I'm 3-for-3 on the takeaway. All three ladies were going out and doing things with me, then I find out about the boyfriend. My reaction every time was the same: "Oh, OK, no problem. I won't push. But if you change your mind..."

They did.


If they're hanging out with you, then either their relationship is shaky, or so solid that they don't need to worry. Either way, pushing isn't a good idea. Let them know how you feel, then just relax. Oh, and none of them (including my wife, btw) cheated on me.
Perhaps your game is better than you think it is. ^.~

[Ceirnian]

That boyfriend line is extremely transparent, it's not tricking any woman out there. Probably easier to just ask directly, or at least use a more subtle way if thats your plan.

[Roxie]

I got hit on for the first time in a very long time the other day.

By a stranger on the street. But this guy did it right.

He was friendly, not flirty--not insistent nor overt and first asked me where the train station was. I told him (he didn't know it but I have this really insane love of telling people about Atlanta and how to get to places--I was pleased as a puppy to help). He then asked my name and shook my hand and asked for my number.

I told him no..I can't remember how I spun it, but I'm just not comfortable giving out my number to strangers on the street (and I was rushing to class)

He was still polite and wished me to have a good day.

THATS THE WAY TO DO IT!

[Samurai_Pooh]

I got hit on for the first time in a very long time the other day.

By a stranger on the street. But this guy did it right.

He was friendly, not flirty--not insistent nor overt and first asked me where the train station was. I told him (he didn't know it but I have this really insane love of telling people about Atlanta and how to get to places--I was pleased as a puppy to help). He then asked my name and shook my hand and asked for my number.

I told him no..I can't remember how I spun it, but I'm just not comfortable giving out my number to strangers on the street (and I was rushing to class)

He was still polite and wished me to have a good day.

THATS THE WAY TO DO IT!

I still stand by my current approach of sneaking up on strange girls and proposing sex through interpretative dance

[Roxie]

I will not be posting your bond.

[bluestars87]

That boyfriend line is extremely transparent, it's not tricking any woman out there. Probably easier to just ask directly, or at least use a more subtle way if thats your plan.
But it's worked...so why would I change it?

Besides, most girls I talk to that I'm attracted to or show interest in, I actually do assume they have a boyfriend. So your belief in me thinking I'm pulling a sham is incorrect/misguided. It's just a better way of asking in my opinion instead of asking them like they're on a job interview.

If you sound like you're trying to trick a girl, then obviously it's going to come across as fake. That's if you have the actual intention of trying to trick her though.

Like I said, I think it's just a better way of asking.

[Kyletherealninja]

The one thing I'll never, ever do is settle for someone other than who I want. Yes, that means that I'm going to be single more often than not, but as I think someone said earlier, it's not fair to me or the girl I'm settling for if I'm not interested in them.

Right on.

I've never been the type of person who feels like they have to be in a relationship in order to be happy, so I sort of just live my life until I meet someone who interests me.

Good attitude. I'm trying to do this for once. :D

[bluestars87]

I've had this habit lately of flirting with older women...in the range of mid thirties to mid forties it seems. Very strange because I'm usually interested in females very close to my own age of 21.

The other day at Starbucks I walked over because I was on a 15 minute break from my job and all I wanted was a cookie. The place was crowded and I needed a place to sit down. I noticed this Asian woman that looked like she was in her late thirties or something alone at a table with another seat available so I sat down. She seemed quite attractive too. I guess I couldn't help but start a conversation with her. So my break ended up being thirties minutes instead of fifteen. I wanted to go back on time but we were both having such a good conversation really just about life. One of the better talks I've had with a stranger in a long, long time.

I think the same day I was helping a woman in the store I work at look for a nice rain jacket. I can't remember exactly what I said to her, but it was some flirtatious comment when she was trying on a jacket. We both joked around a little and I ended up selling her the jacket in one of the fastest sales I've ever made with a customer. She was a woman who looked like she was in her late thirties or early forties. Also quite pretty.

Perhaps I'm enticed by the maturity in women that are a little older? It does seem sexy.

[stsparky]

But it's worked...so why would I change it? ...

Are you datable? ALWAYS worked.

[TygressVirgo]

I must say that I am more attracted to the guys who play it subtle, who even though I may have a boyfriend, they still enjoy my company. Whenever a guy has asked me in the way bluestars87 suggested, it was always transparent, and i usually never saw them again after answering. I've been in two situations where I was dating a guy, hit the end of things, but ended up finding a new love in the way Stsparky mentioned.

[Roxie]

Whenever a guy has asked me in the way bluestars87 suggested, it was always transparent, and i usually never saw them again after answering.
which is an incredible turn off.

[bluestars87]

I must say that I am more attracted to the guys who play it subtle, who even though I may have a boyfriend, they still enjoy my company. Whenever a guy has asked me in the way bluestars87 suggested, it was always transparent, and i usually never saw them again after answering. I've been in two situations where I was dating a guy, hit the end of things, but ended up finding a new love in the way Stsparky mentioned.
Hmm...perhaps it was the swagger that the person displayed when saying it? Did they just come up to you and say it since you said you usually never saw the person after answering? It's not just the phrase that makes it work, at least for me. You still have to come off as a casual person that's just making conversation and doesn't have any ulterior motive. And it's so easy because that's what I'm usually doing...making conversation and getting to know the person...nothing more at first. And I usually only say this after I get to know the girl to a good degree...not right off the bat.

Perhaps I'm one of the few that makes it work...even though it's not very hard to comprehend.

[stsparky]

The thing is you might come across as a Player. Whereas, I - in three words - express honest interest.

[Plekto]

Right on.

Attitude is everything. It amazes me how wishy-washy and oblique most men are today. Now, that doesn't mean you have to go all Neandertal on the situation either, but being direct is amazingly effective.

Look, every woman, at least in the U.S., loves having her ego pumped up a bit. But beyond that, it's plainly obvious which ones are the men who want in your pants and the ones that are looking at you as a long-term prospect.

If you find a woman like that, being direct and persistent is the correct method. And, having to ask her if she has a boyfriend isn't even an issue. It just doesn't matter one way of the other. You've found someone and know what you want.

In this case, he'd make more points by NOT asking her such stuff at all and going ahead as if the other potential relationships in her life were not something he's worrying at all about. He just cares about the one he's creating with her.

[Ceirnian]

Perhaps I'm one of the few that makes it work...even though it's not very hard to comprehend.

Or maybe you're a typical young guy who thinks his way is good even though there are better ways to pull it of. I mean seriously, if you are going for subtle why do something that sounds so cheesy and obvious that it might as well be thrown in there as a joke?

I'm with Sparky on this one, in fact I've been getting myself in the mindset to use his advice for awhile now. I have a girl I'm interested in and really, I need to just man up and stop doing this subtle 'lol i'm clever' type stuff. I don't really plan to say anything more about it since I wasn't planning to bring it up in the first place, but thanks Sparky. [edit] and Plekto... and whoever else gives the type of advice you two do.

[bluestars87]

Or maybe you're a typical young guy who thinks his way is good even though there are better ways to pull it of. I mean seriously, if you are going for subtle why do something that sounds so cheesy and obvious that it might as well be thrown in there as a joke?

I'm with Sparky on this one, in fact I've been getting myself in the mindset to use his advice for awhile now. I have a girl I'm interested in and really, I need to just man up and stop doing this subtle 'lol i'm clever' type stuff. I don't really plan to say anything more about it since I wasn't planning to bring it up in the first place, but thanks Sparky. [edit] and Plekto... and whoever else gives the type of advice you two do.
I never said there aren't better ways. Nor am I opposed to alternatives...since I do use them. But it's worked for me...so why would I rule out my current approach? It's not logical.

Who cares if it's chessy. If it works it works. It might only seem that way if you totally screw up and make it seem that way. I don't which is why it's worked.

Honestly what are you trying to argue? That the methods I've described can't possibly work even though it has for me? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it can't be effective. Everyone has their own way. I was just giving a suggestion that's helped me.

Oh and good luck with your girl situation...

[bluestars87]

Attitude is everything.
Yes. Wise words.

[Ceirnian]

Reread the scenario you posted concerning your approach, that's all I have to say.

[TygressVirgo]

Hmm...perhaps it was the swagger that the person displayed when saying it? Did they just come up to you and say it since you said you usually never saw the person after answering? It's not just the phrase that makes it work, at least for me. You still have to come off as a casual person that's just making conversation and doesn't have any ulterior motive. And it's so easy because that's what I'm usually doing...making conversation and getting to know the person...nothing more at first. And I usually only say this after I get to know the girl to a good degree...not right off the bat.

Perhaps I'm one of the few that makes it work...even though it's not very hard to comprehend.

It didn't matter if they just walked up and said it, or if I knew them casually or to a good degree. Any time a guy has tried to casually slip in a "do you have a boyfriend", its extremely transparent. I believe someone put it nicely in that guys are usually transparent to a woman until they reach the 30s. My boyfriend now, is more subtle than any other guy I've interacted with, but is still transparent to a large degree.

I will say that there are a few girls out there that really don't have a clue.

[qwert]

Why are guys transparent in flirting/dating/relationships? We are paradigms of reason.

[bluestars87]

It didn't matter if they just walked up and said it, or if I knew them casually or to a good degree. Any time a guy has tried to casually slip in a "do you have a boyfriend", its extremely transparent. I believe someone put it nicely in that guys are usually transparent to a woman until they reach the 30s. My boyfriend now, is more subtle than any other guy I've interacted with, but is still transparent to a large degree.

I will say that there are a few girls out there that really don't have a clue.
Hmmm? So wait, asking you in a non-casual way if you had a boyfriend or not would make you feel more comfortable?

[Mastiker]

It didn't matter if they just walked up and said it, or if I knew them casually or to a good degree. Any time a guy has tried to casually slip in a "do you have a boyfriend", its extremely transparent. I believe someone put it nicely in that guys are usually transparent to a woman until they reach the 30s. My boyfriend now, is more subtle than any other guy I've interacted with, but is still transparent to a large degree.

I will say that there are a few girls out there that really don't have a clue.

so the half-bajillion girls who've asked me "so, you seeing anyone?" are being "subtle"?

If I want to let a girl know I'm asking casually, I usually ASK casually. "So, how's your love life?"

[mugen]

1. You flirt with a girl
2. You ask her out

No need to ask if she's already seeing somebody. Like Plekto said, if s/he doesn't have a ring, it fair game. If she is already seeing someone and you really like her, you tell her to let you know when she changes her mind. It doesn't have to be awkward unless you make it awkward. At least not if you two have some chemistry.

[stsparky]

Do you want to act like a player? Or be with someone? This is why I'm forthright. Talking and rejection will only make you stronger.

[Trump]

Here's a clue... if you have seen a person a few times and never heard anything about their girl/boy friend, they aren't really into them if they have them. If you like someone or spend a lot of time with them, you'll talk about them or at least mention them before long. If you haven't heard it in normal conversation, fair game. Period.

[Plekto]

I believe someone put it nicely in that guys are usually transparent to a woman until they reach the 30s. My boyfriend now, is more subtle than any other guy I've interacted with, but is still transparent to a large degree.

Heh. That would be me who said that.

The reason is that girls spend from about the age of six learning how to survive in modern society by being sneaky and also polite and nice all at the same time. Since they are essentially 2nd class citizens in most of the world, they learn "social" skills. Or are forced to. When they don't, they are seen as tomboys or worse.

Just saying how it generally is.

Now, this does have a practical upshot, which is that they are very very good at reading people. Men, especially, since it's men who they've been training to read in order to deal with the inequity in power in our society, in order to outmaneuver them. Also, women as a rule spend far more time thinking about relationships, so it's a double minefield for men. That's why it's easier to be direct, since the typical woman has already been through this a zillion times in her head. She is, as a result, far more likely to not put up with B.S.

The "guy" equivalent of this would be trying to talk to a real expert in a field who's a guy(as opposed to a claimed expert). He's going to cut to the chase and tell you how it is in a few sentences. He just doesn't have time to deal with crap and if you don't listen to his advise, well, enjoy failure.

Women are exactly like this when it comes to relationships. They want a direct approach most of the time, or would rather get past the "cherry boy" "OMG should I ask her?" idiocy and deal with the thousand other things that come after that that are part of a relationship.

Note - this also affects manga and anime a lot - you can plainly tell which ones are written by men who are clueless about relationships. Minor pet peeve of mine, actually. No real woman would put up with that level of B.S. and waiting. So it drags and drags and drags on. Instead of getting past the asking out part, which is really meaningless, and instead writing about making it really work out.
(sorry for the manga rant - heh)

[TygressVirgo]

:BANG:

Bluestars87 -- Hmmm? So wait, asking you in a non-casual way if you had a boyfriend or not would make you feel more comfortable?

Asking about a boyfriend, in any manner, will set off signals within most girls minds. For me, when a guy asks something like that, its appreciated, but also annoying. I would rather the guy ask me questions about myself and get to know me. It may seem backwards, but /shrug

Mastiker -- so the half-bajillion girls who've asked me "so, you seeing anyone?" are being "subtle"?

If I want to let a girl know I'm asking casually, I usually ASK casually. "So, how's your love life?"

Guys and girls think/act/communicate differently >.< Most of the time when a girl asks if you are dating anyone, she usually already knows the answer, but wants your take on things.

The way Plekto explains a woman's brain in this case reminds me of Scarlett O'hara, or Elizabeth I.

[Swede]

Wisdom abound in this thread.


So we're going out for dinner Thursday. Still trying to work out exactly how I'm going to approach this, but I think in any case I'm going to have to come forward at some point and let her know a bit more directly how I feel. :watson:

[Plekto]

The way Plekto explains a woman's brain in this case reminds me of Scarlett O'hara, or Elizabeth I.

Heh. This really is only about relationships, though. The general line of thought that I've encountered is basically: If he liked me, he'd just come out and say it.

Now, there are a zillion ways TO say it or make it a bit romantic, of course... But this mind reading maybe I should ask her friends and hint at things via some chat room... It shows no initiative. No real desire to just say screw it and go ahead with trying to win her over no matter the consequences.(most people male of female find this sort of attitude appealing as long as it's not stalker/creepy of course)


For me, when a guy asks something like that, its appreciated, but also annoying. I would rather the guy ask me questions about myself and get to know me. It may seem backwards, but /shrug


Exactly what I was getting at. :) It's not "backwards" - It's exactly how most women think about this. And, in a way, it makes the game tons easier for you as a guy once you realize that pickup lines and all the other B.S. is really not required.(though tons of courage of course is)

[stsparky]

Shall we talk about how to recover from "I'm not interested" at this time?

[Roxie]

I got hit on by a guy who's old enough to be my father. And my father will be 58 next month.

I was going into the parking lot to get in the car and I smiled and nodded, cause he's the attendent.

I get in, drive up and wait for my chance to turn into the street when he comes up to my window. Now, cause this is only the second time I parked here, I thought he might want my ticket, so I rolled my window down

and he asked "Where are you going?" and I said "To class."
"OH, cause if you weren't going any where I'd like to go with you."

"Yeah well...I have class."

And now I'm like FUCK! I don't even want to park there now, cause he's going to be watching me and say something else and I don't want to deal with that.

That's the way NOT to do it.

[Stephy]

I got hit on by a guy who's old enough to be my father.
:box: I hate those types. :gloomy:


To contribute to thread:
Being direct: "Hey do you have a boyfriend/you seeing anyone?" = annoying and boring.

Being indirect: Getting to know me, understanding me, being subtle and interesting. = Good. Not too subtle!

All girls are different though.
Getting hit on by strangers (especially in an enviornment where I want to be left alone, like say on the sidewalk, library, fast-food place/restaurant [I'm eating...-_-], in class) is always a negative for me, but some girls do like it.

[Ceirnian]

:box: I hate those types. :gloomy:


To contribute to thread:
Being direct: "Hey do you have a boyfriend/you seeing anyone?" = annoying and boring.

Being indirect: Getting to know me, understanding me, being subtle and interesting. = Good. Not too subtle!


I don't understand, why is it annoying and boring? Because if the answer is no and the next follow up question goes well, you can get to the sexy and fun no pants allowed slumber party for two .. activity.

Yeah I need to go sleep, that was a pretty bad name for it.

[bluestars87]

Asking about a boyfriend, in any manner, will set off signals within most girls minds. For me, when a guy asks something like that, its appreciated, but also annoying. I would rather the guy ask me questions about myself and get to know me. It may seem backwards, but /shrug
Well I'd rather know so I don't have to wonder and I can get that out of the way. It's just being honest. If a girl really trips over a simple question like that then I probably wouldn't want to date her anyways.

A girl randomly asked me if I was single today...didn't get annoyed about it. Guess it's just a girl thing.

[bluestars87]

Speaking of which I was on my way to work today and I was waiting at the train station. I had some time to kill so I got a smoothie at this one little place that's inside the train station. Ever since I had one like a month and a half ago I've been there like eight times. They're really good.

Anyways, there are these two girls that work there in the afternoon, which is when I usually get on a train to go somewhere. So I've seen them about as many times as I've gotten a smoothie. I guess I'm not really a stranger when getting one there anymore...especially since there is small talk now involved whenever I place an order.

Anyways, one of the girls that was serving today asked me a question that I certainly didn't expect when all I wanted was a smoothie.

She says "Hey don't be weirded out by this but...are you single?"

I was kind of taken aback, but I informed her that I was indeed single at the time and inquired as to why she would ask. She told me that she and the other girl that works there has a friend that's apparently seen me when I went to get a smoothie once or twice or something like that...and this "friend" thought I was cute/handsome. She told me that her friend was a "very nice girl" and that if I was interested she would give me a signal next time she's there to notify me or something. I simply told her that I would keep what she said in mind...honestly I wasn't too sure how to respond. Of course like the casual guy I am, I kept my demeanor that way the entire time.

Problem is, all she said about her friend was that she was a "nice girl". Now...I'm not going to lie, there are certain "types" of girls I like. Don't really care about ethnicity, but...I'll be honest...looks do take part in who I'm attracted to. If I see this person and I don't find her attractive...how should I tell these two girls that I don't think I'm interested? Should I even talk to the girl if I see her? I don't want to lead her on or anything by starting a conversation. Just seems like I've been put in a strange situation.

[TygressVirgo]

Well I'd rather know so I don't have to wonder and I can get that out of the way. It's just being honest. If a girl really trips over a simple question like that then I probably wouldn't want to date her anyways.

A girl randomly asked me if I was single today...didn't get annoyed about it. Guess it's just a girl thing.

See how you said "I can get out of the way", that is the part that gets annoying. Its been my experience that females are always looking for "the one" until there is a ring on that finger. When you ask a girl in that manner, they tend to think 'he only wants me if I'm available' rather than 'he is interested in me, and wants to spend time with me'.

Your way isnt a bad thing, just gives off a certain vibe.

Plekto - What I meant is that the whole "women read people and use it to their advantage" thing reminds me of the way Scarlett and Elizabeth I to get what they want/need.

On a new topic.

My ex cannot get over me, we share a son together, and we were good together on good days, and utterly terrible on bad days. He wants to settle to what amounts to a good relationship, and not a good marriage. I want not just a good marriage, but a great marriage. I tried for over a year to fix things, to get through to him the trouble we were in, but it did not work and things fell apart.

I feel I have to maintain a friendly, if not civil, relationship with him because of our son. He is in Wa and I am in Ca. Does anyone have any advice on how to help him deal with everything? :box:

[Digital Masta]

:box: I hate those types. :gloomy:
.

Oh come on now...many women I know find Sean Connery to be quite the attractive man.

[mugen]

Being indirect: Getting to know me, understanding me, being subtle and interesting. = Good. Not too subtle!


That's kinda what I meant by flirting: getting to know a girl in a playful manner, instead of being that guy.
You know, the guy who's just interviewing a poor girl(almost seems like he's working a list, you know who I'm talking about).

[Samurai_Pooh]

how do you know when your standards are too high?

[japanat]

how do you know when your standards are too high?
...when you love Barbie.

Seriously, your standards are too high if they're unrealistic; if you don't allow potential mates to be human, with all the foibles, farts and less-than-10 that that entails. Other than that, be as picky as you wish,, but be willing to spend time alone if necessary (but don't drop the bar below ground level in order to "get someone", either).

[Roxie]

Also, you have to remember, even if you found that person who matches everything on your "list", what's the guarantee they're going to love you?

[Trump]

Why bother even asking about a boyfriend? Just ask the girl to hang out, or go out. That is probably why it annoys girls (I'm a guy, so of course I'm guessing!). It's like walking up to someone and asking "Do you have brown eyes?" The answer is obvious and you could have figured it out yourself with hardly any trouble. The same applies to a girl. You can just flat ask and be lazy, or you'll put in the effort to figure out if she has a boyfriend by getting to know her. That's what she wants anyway.

Bluestar, just play it cool. It never ever hurts to meet people. So if you're not attracted to her, just say that you aren't interested in dating, but you'll be friends. Play it off like it is in her best interest and everything will be fine.

Oh, and if someone ever says they aren't interested, don't bother trying that hard! Be yourself, make a friend, and try to date someone else. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. Most probable outcome, you make a friend and maybe they'll try to set you up with one of their friends. Most unlikely outcome, she change her mind after a while and want to date you later. "I'm not interested means" either you're unattractive or something about your personality doesn't jive. It is the nice way to say it. There's nothing you can do to change that.

[bluestars87]

Bluestar, just play it cool. It never ever hurts to meet people. So if you're not attracted to her, just say that you aren't interested in dating, but you'll be friends. Play it off like it is in her best interest and everything will be fine.
I visited the smoothie place the other day again. She wasn't there but I was talking with the two girls that usually are. I saw a picture of "their friend". Honestly I was surprised. She seemed kinda cute. But...then again it was just a cell phone photo. I feel better about meeting her though. :)

[Mastiker]

Rant:

End of August, I tried out okcupid.com. I met this girl named Lauren who was pretty cool. My friend Dan also met said girl. Dan had just been dumped, so I "let" Dan get at her. When Dan went back to his ex, he left Lauren in the dust. I picked Lauren up and she professed she liked me better, just didn't think I was interested. After a bit of talking, we met. Things went well for a little while, but we both freaked so things failed. No biggie, it happens.

Well, we've stayed in touch and have been thinking about going back out. Dan got dumped by his ex earlier this week. He immediately goes back to Lauren.

Lauren and I have been iffy about trying to go back out. We like each other, but we're worried about repeating last times mistakes. Thing is, I haven't told Dan I'm still HEAVILY talking to Lauren. So... he asks her out (the night AFTER he gets dumped, mind you) she says no (in more words than that) and she tells him she's worried about her and I working out but is willing to work on it.

Thing is... Dan didn't tell me that.

Dan says "I don't think you have a chance in hell man." and repeats a bastardized version of what she said. Then keeps on going on about how he "just wants to meet her" and "wants to be just friends."

Honestly? I've known Dan longer, but I trust Lauren more in this context.

Now I get Dan telling me he went back with his ex - after telling myself and Lauren that "this is it. He's done. New start!"

And now things are awkward between Dan and Lauren. This normally wouldn't be a big deal, but Dan is my roommate. And... ugh.

/rant

[Plekto]

Sex before roommates. That is, if he's really just a roommate and not a friend you've known since you both were in grade school or something...

Ah hell... for me, relationship with someone I'm interested in... a real friend will get over it and understand.

[Mastiker]

Known Dan since grade school. 1st grade. The point isn't so much that he'll feel weird, but that Lauren will... and that makes me not so happy.

[japanat]

Dan's a turd. If you want to see the girl, then see her. If it'll make things awkward, then see her outside your room. She doesn't even have to meet him. Dan had a chance, blew it to go back to his ex. All is fair now. Besides, the guy doesn't really want her, he just doesn't want to be alone.

[stsparky]

Masticker: Actually, you and Lauren just have to find a girl for Dan. That way - the two of you can bond helping out Dan.

[Trump]

Bouncing between girls like that is retarded. It shows he has no common sense about dating and you should really ignore him.

[Mastiker]

stsparky: He already went back with his ex... and I don't feel like touching that subject for a while.

Trump: Yeah, I know... but that doesn't stop him making things silly weird.

[stsparky]

Ah, when I was a teen - my friends talked about a behavior called "the code." It implied a dude who dated a girl had first refusal over whether a bud could also date girl. It completely ignored the wishes of the girl. So I never subscribed to it. As a nerd pack, we had a small pool of smart kids to hang out with. So if one girl was hopping from friend to friend - it would be cool. And if there was an exclusive couple - we'd disabuse jerks from being intrusive.

No one owns a relationship - there is too much flux in human activities. I had pals who thought I was pissed at them for doing someone I knew I was not exclusive with. I'm 30 odd years past that — but amusingly confessions have come in recently.

I found that college made everything better.

[ellie]

Figured I should update you guys, since I've been MIA for a while: I've been back in NC for two weeks now, living with my boyfriend. I am so glad I made this decision and this move! Everything seems perfect and I'm incredibly happy.

[stsparky]

Figured I should update you guys, since I've been MIA for a while: I've been back in NC for two weeks now, living with my boyfriend. I am so glad I made this decision and this move! Everything seems perfect and I'm incredibly happy.
Tell him we expect wedding bells or we're taking you back.

[ミュー]

I had like, 5 random girls during the summer and damn that was crazy.

Now I've got a girlfriend and I have to say, I am happy. Sex is fun, but I honestly enjoy kissing my cute girlfriend more than fucking anyone else. In other news, my dumb ass hooked up with another virgin :duh: Why do guys find this appealing!? Oh boy, I get to introduce a girl to sex and cause immense emotional discomfort and weirdness! Now that's sexy >_>

[Digital Masta]

I'm with you on that one.

Maybe it's because some guys like the idea of being the one that they'll "always remember" or some stupid crap like that.

[Plekto]

Sex is one area in life where experience really matters. If she's already had sex, had her heart broken at least once when it didn't work out, and also knows what to do and expect, it's honestly TONS easier for both of you.

IME, it also takes a good 5-10 times for most people who are repressed or new to it to even begin to figure out what they want. It's like teaching remedial classes and getting someone up to speed when you want to skip all of that and go to post-grad classes instead.

[Roxie]

I'm with you on that one.

Maybe it's because some guys like the idea of being the one that they'll "always remember" or some stupid crap like that.
No, it's because we fetishize virginity/purity/innocence

[Digital Masta]

Wouldn't what I just said be part of that?

[Ceirnian]

I think its more a dominance thing. Teach the girl the way you want it, and maybe they feel since they are the first she will be more submissive towards him? I dunno

[h2orowe]

Why have only one virgin when you can have seventy-two?

Join the extremists today! They're radical!

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo181/kdash187/100_0963.jpg

[Swede]

So, with regards to my last statement. We went out to eat, though kinda last minute a friend of hers I had met earlier decided she wanted to come too... I didn't want to act like a dick or anything so I said it was alright (plus we had to reschedule from thursday to saturday since we both ended up being busy). It still went well enough and I had a good time, acted gentlemanly (I paid, held open doors, didn't treat her friend like a third wheel, etc.), but being that it wasn't just the two of us I really didn't get to go into 'relationship thread' type of topics within the conversation.

But, the more I spend time with her now, it seems like the harder it's getting. I really want to tell her how I feel, because I do like her a lot and I like spending time with her, but at the same time part of me thinks that doing so would, well, screw things up. I honestly don't know what would happen if I did, and while part of me doesn't want to take the chances of screwing this up, another wants to stop being dishonest with her and myself... Decisions decisions...

[Samurai_Pooh]

So, with regards to my last statement. We went out to eat, though kinda last minute a friend of hers I had met earlier decided she wanted to come too... I didn't want to act like a dick or anything so I said it was alright (plus we had to reschedule from thursday to saturday since we both ended up being busy). It still went well enough and I had a good time, acted gentlemanly (I paid, held open doors, didn't treat her friend like a third wheel, etc.), but being that it wasn't just the two of us I really didn't get to go into 'relationship thread' type of topics within the conversation.

But, the more I spend time with her now, it seems like the harder it's getting. I really want to tell her how I feel, because I do like her a lot and I like spending time with her, but at the same time part of me thinks that doing so would, well, screw things up. I honestly don't know what would happen if I did, and while part of me doesn't want to take the chances of screwing this up, another wants to stop being dishonest with her and myself... Decisions decisions...

She already knows how you feel, don't tell her anything. Show her. Create a romantic moment/mood, and make a move, such as kissing her. This will quickly elicit a reaction that will tell you if you have any chance whatsover with her. She backs off, you know that she isn't attracted to you. If she reciprocates, AWWWW YEEEAH.

anyhow, thats how I would play it. It beats the hell out of taking her out night after night not knowing whether she has any intention to leave her boyfriend for you.

[bluestars87]

So, with regards to my last statement. We went out to eat, though kinda last minute a friend of hers I had met earlier decided she wanted to come too... I didn't want to act like a dick or anything so I said it was alright (plus we had to reschedule from thursday to saturday since we both ended up being busy). It still went well enough and I had a good time, acted gentlemanly (I paid, held open doors, didn't treat her friend like a third wheel, etc.), but being that it wasn't just the two of us I really didn't get to go into 'relationship thread' type of topics within the conversation.

But, the more I spend time with her now, it seems like the harder it's getting. I really want to tell her how I feel, because I do like her a lot and I like spending time with her, but at the same time part of me thinks that doing so would, well, screw things up. I honestly don't know what would happen if I did, and while part of me doesn't want to take the chances of screwing this up, another wants to stop being dishonest with her and myself... Decisions decisions...
Told you. Might be better to just move on...unless you want to keep feeling worse and worse as time passes.

But whatever floats your boat. Just don't expect her to fall into your arms if you spill the beans. Good luck.

I was never down with the "tell her how you feel" thing. Just always seems to put the girl on the spot and make things awkward. If I had given enough hints and she still wasn't "getting" it then I would just abandon ship and assume she wasn't interested. And if she was a friend, then at least I could save the friendship.

Seems like you're starting to fall into the friend zone.

[Swede]

Told you. Might be better to just move on...unless you want to keep feeling worse and worse as time passes.

But whatever floats your boat. Just don't expect her to fall into your arms if you spill the beans. Good luck.

I was never down with the "tell her how you feel" thing. Just always seems to put the girl on the spot and make things awkward. If I had given enough hints and she still wasn't "getting" it then I would just abandon ship and assume she wasn't interested. And if she was a friend, then at least I could save the friendship.

Seems like you're starting to fall into the friend zone.


Told me... what exactly?

I still don't have any regrets about how I've handled the situation thus far, and I'm especially glad that I haven't just given up, which was/is certainly the easier route to go.

Yes, the friends zone thing is a potential problem, which is why I feel like I have to say/do something soon before that idea gets too far cemented in her head. I'm not expecting her to just drop everything for me, but I figure at least 'planting the seed', so to say, that we could be more than friends, may be enough to at least get her to think twice.


Pooh, I'll keep what you said in mind, but I don't know if I'm near that smooth to be able to pull that off :P I think an approach like that may be better though, if I'm able to somehow create that sort of situation.






Now, a question for the ladies, on an unrelated note. What the hell is up with all the different ways for calling people attractive, and what sort of connotations come with it? For example, being called cute. I always associated cute with like little kids and puppies, but apparently this isn't a bad characteristic to have. Okay, I get it. But what's the difference between that and say, just being good looking, hot, handsome, etc? Are different girls more attracted to different kinds? Now, the big wtf for me is being called pretty, and being assured that it's a good quality to have. This left me pretty effing clueless. Not really a major issue of concern I guess, this type of stuff just confuses me.

[Plekto]

Go for it. And yeah, sorry, BE a dick. Otherwise it's always some sort of friend tagging along and something happening. Make it #1 priority to get time alone with her so that you can tell her how you feel.

At this point, I'd settle for a cafe or shop or whatever - don't go silly trying to create the right mood. Just find a place alone and talk.

[h2orowe]

Now, a question for the ladies, on an unrelated note. What the hell is up with all the different ways for calling people attractive, and what sort of connotations come with it? For example, being called cute. I always associated cute with like little kids and puppies, but apparently this isn't a bad characteristic to have. Okay, I get it. But what's the difference between that and say, just being good looking, hot, handsome, etc? Are different girls more attracted to different kinds? Now, the big wtf for me is being called pretty, and being assured that it's a good quality to have. This left me pretty effing clueless. Not really a major issue of concern I guess, this type of stuff just confuses me.
Kk, I'm a male of course, but I think I can explain it. Sometimes people have different standards/criteria for the adjectives; also, in general I've found some women like "hot guys", some like "cute boys", some like "handsome men", some like "pretty boys", and some like etc. etc. etc.

You probably got called pretty because, from what I can tell by your pictures, you're pretty uh... petite, I guess? Don't know if that is the right word. Anyway, like small and not-quite-feminine-but-almost-feminine.

I've gotten called cute a lot. The only times I get called sexy/hot is by my girlfriend and once by that 20 year old when I was like lol15 and she was like LOL YOU SING LIKE WHITE MIYAVI and I'm like D:don'tyoufuckingcallmemiyavi. Anyway, I think the reasons girls more often call me cute than other adjectives is because I'm big and burly but my personality isn't very masculine. I'm a pretty big romantic, I write poetry and serenade my woman, and I'm like a big teddy bear. Some girls like the cute/adorable thing, some think it's okay, and some simply abhor it.

Hot/sexy, I think is more along the lines of "LOL I WOULDN'T MIND GETTING FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF BY THIS GUY." You have to be really assertive, borderline arrogant (even arrogant in some cases), etc. etc. I think sexy kinda differs a lot for women (and men, too.) So, while some women might find that sexy, others might find cute sexy or pretty sexy.

Think of it this way: (Not using you as in YOU Swede, but as in people in general.) you find the girl next door cute or the clumsy girl cute. You find the librarian type sexy. You find the more promiscuous girl hot. Etc. etc. etc.

Preferably, I like the cute ones. Less pressure on me to be a dick because it goes against my nature and less pressure on me to maintain a shaven face. :cool:

[Samurai_Pooh]

I've gotten called cute a lot. The only times I get called sexy/hot is by my girlfriend and once by that 20 year old when I was like lol15 and she was like LOL YOU SING LIKE WHITE MIYAVI and I'm like D:don'tyoufuckingcallmemiyavi. Anyway, I think the reasons girls more often call me cute than other adjectives is because I'm big and burly but my personality isn't very masculine. I'm a pretty big romantic, I write poetry and serenade my woman, and I'm like a big teddy bear. Some girls like the cute/adorable thing, some think it's okay, and some simply abhor it.

Hot/sexy, I think is more along the lines of "LOL I WOULDN'T MIND GETTING FUCKED THE SHIT OUT OF BY THIS GUY." You have to be really assertive, borderline arrogant (even arrogant in some cases), etc. etc. I think sexy kinda differs a lot for women (and men, too.) So, while some women might find that sexy, others might find cute sexy or pretty sexy.

Think of it this way: (Not using you as in YOU Swede, but as in people in general.) you find the girl next door cute or the clumsy girl cute. You find the librarian type sexy. You find the more promiscuous girl hot. Etc. etc. etc.


I'm been called cute/adorable, but I'm just a tall lanky dude. I've always thought guys who get called 'cute' were the more harmless looking types (I'm pretty non-threatening looking, at least from my perspective).

NEVER been called sexy though :gloomy:

and swede, yes it is very tough to create a moment thats right for making a move. Usually I just stumble across them on accident, so I'm not exactly sure how one would go about creating one. I'm still not convinced you need to tell her how you 'feel', but maybe it would be better to tell her want you want.

[Scarabomb]

I'm been called cute/adorable, but I'm just a tall lanky dude. I've always thought guys who get called 'cute' were the more harmless looking types (I'm pretty non-threatening looking, at least from my perspective).

NEVER been called sexy though

Only three instances in my life that I remember me being commented on my looks that I can remember are:

One was when I was in middle school and used to be chubby, this girl said "Hey, you're really cute (drone off to some relationship question that I ended up ignoring because at the time, I was a retard)"

Second was my friend who was also next to me in the band. She said my eyebrows were cute (go figure)

Third is my friend who works in the same building as me (right now) when we all went out for whatever, the first time I met her she said something along the lines of "You're the cutest/hottest guy in the whole world". I was like "You must live in a very small world..." of course I didn't say that out loud. I said something like thanks or something stupid.

Funny thing about all these girls who said this were really damn hot. The first two, I don't know since I haven't seen them in 7+ years but at the time they were the hawt popular girls... if you place labels on people from school like I used to. The last one is still my friend and I occasionally hang out with her (I intentionally put myself in her "Friend's Zone" [is that a sin?] since she's kinda.... umm.... the word where you have SEVERAL relationships at the same time and still hung up on your ex... I don't like that kinda baggage with my relationships).

[TygressVirgo]

Swede - Tell her :) be honest, do as you said and plant that thought in her head. From the sound of it, she may already thinking in that direction, and waiting to see what you do. One thing I would advise against is planting a kiss on her if she is still with someone. Most of the time it backfires.

When I call a guy cute it generally means I like his looks, that he is attractive on some level. Calling a guy pretty generally means he has that "pretty boy" look. When it comes to calling a guy sexy or hot means he is really attractive on a sexual level.

If I want to keep a guy in the friend zone, I call him adorable or sweet.

[Swede]

Swede - Tell her :) be honest, do as you said and plant that thought in her head. From the sound of it, she may already thinking in that direction, and waiting to see what you do. One thing I would advise against is planting a kiss on her if she is still with someone. Most of the time it backfires.

Duly noted. I'm probably gonna try going this route, along with what Plekto/Pooh were getting at.

Thanks for the advice :)

When I call a guy cute it generally means I like his looks, that he is attractive on some level. Calling a guy pretty generally means he has that "pretty boy" look. When it comes to calling a guy sexy or hot means he is really attractive on a sexual level.

If I want to keep a guy in the friend zone, I call him adorable or sweet.

Hmm... I don't get called adorable or sweet too often, so rock on there. Cute is probably the biggest one, though pretty has been coming up more often recently, and not really in like a negative sort of sense, which I didn't think existed. I've always thought being called pretty if you're a guy was a bad thing, since for me the word was almost always used exclusively towards girls/women.

MAYBE THIS IS JUST THE SEXIST UNDERTONES OF OUR SOCIETY REARING ITS UGLY HEAD!

Or maybe I'm sexist. D:

Or maybe I think being called pretty is weird.

I think I understand the differences between "cute" and "hot/sexy", as it's essentially the same thing with how guys typically view women.

I guess the difference between those and pretty for when I describe a girl would be sort of more.... Respectful? Like I tend to say someone is pretty/beautiful if they're attractive or good looking, but not in the sort of way that the consensus has been on describing someone as sexy or hot. For some reason, I don't think being called pretty has the same connotations for guys, at least in my head. Calling a guy pretty to me has pretty much always been another way of saying that the guy spends too much time catering to their looks.

I dunno. This topic has gotten far more complicated than I initially thought :boggled:, though I do have to say I think it's kind of interesting to dig into the language a bit and find out what connotations these words carry :P

Also, apparently I look like a European and my skin is white like an egg. Maybe it's just because it's typically Japanese girls saying this type of stuff and there's different standards for what traits are desirable to have in terms of appearance. So instead of being called a pale-skinned girly-man, I'm pretty with tamago-mitai skin and ヨーロッパっぽいなぁ。







bottom line: DO YOU THINK I'M PRETTY?!?! D:




but seriously. It confuses me.

[Urameshi YuSooKey]

^ So you don't want to look like pantywaist GIRLY MAN? Then get a tan and get pumped up!!

but maybe its the hair.

[Swede]

I'm very comfortable with how I look, thank you very much. I'm not a big guy but I'm in pretty good shape, and the skin thing I can't do much about. I can get tan, but it never sticks around for too long. So I must embrace the pale.

The hair eh?

[Stephy]

I was bored! Keep in mind that every girl is different in their preferences. When viewing the image, try to disregard race (just for this quick example) and look more at how they pose, body build, their hair (body hair vs head hair vs facial hair), their eyes, and skin. There are a lot more qualities that factor in too. I feel oddly embarrassed posting this for some reason. :whoops:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7168/boredrb8.png

[Roxie]

yes, yes, no--his pretty doesn't turn me on.

[Swede]

So now there's more kinds of pretty?? :boggled:

Also, from Stephy's explanation it seems as though white people are cute, Indian creepy Spider-man scientists are sexy, and Japanese guys are pretty.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Stephy]

yes, yes, no--his pretty doesn't turn me on.
I don't like pretty guys ;x he is a NO to me too, but he is pretty! He does his hair better than I do my own >_>;

Swede, I said disregard race XD and um... pretend you have no idea who they are.

[Swede]

I don't like pretty guys ;x he is a NO to me too, but he is pretty! He does his hair better than I do my own >_>;

See, this is what I was afraid of.

Swede, I said disregard race XD and um... pretend you have no idea who they are.

I was being facetious :)

[Stephy]

Ooh! I was... also being facetious..! <.<;

There are lot of girls who like pretty men! So you have no worries if you fall into the pretty category.

[Roxie]

So now there's more kinds of pretty?? :boggled:
There are different kinds, but it's more about personal style. His personal style of pretty doesn't do it for me.

[h2orowe]

I'm very comfortable with how I look, thank you very much. I'm not a big guy but I'm in pretty good shape, and the skin thing I can't do much about. I can get tan, but it never sticks around for too long. So I must embrace the pale.

The hair eh?
Try the stubble look. My girlfriend really likes it, though, I prefer having a beard since it makes me stand out more and it also makes me look more philosophical. Also, if I ever find out I'd been repressing my homosexuality my whole life, I'd have no problem fitting in as a bear.

Maybe grow a 'stache. Some women love them, some HATE them. Some like sideburns as well. Try some facial hair if you don't like being called pretty. Dress a little more RUGGED. Like Action Hank.

[Roxie]

I like Swede's style. He's an attractive guy.
I don't really like stubble. It feels awful on your cheek :s

[Samurai_Pooh]

Kind of weird, when I saw Stephys picture post I had my head resting on my hand with my pinky sort of in my mouth EXACTLY like the cute guy picture :boggled:

This leads me to believe I REALLY AM CUTE WHOO ITS EMPIRICAL NOW SUCKAS

[Swede]

Try the stubble look. My girlfriend really likes it, though, I prefer having a beard since it makes me stand out more and it also makes me look more philosophical. Also, if I ever find out I'd been repressing my homosexuality my whole life, I'd have no problem fitting in as a bear.

Maybe grow a 'stache. Some women love them, some HATE them. Some like sideburns as well. Try some facial hair if you don't like being called pretty. Dress a little more RUGGED. Like Action Hank.

At this point if I try growing a beard/side burns I just look dirty, so I go with the clean shaven. Some guys can pull off the look your talking about, I can't. Maybe someday :meh:

I like Swede's style. He's an attractive guy.

<3

Why thank you :)

[nanashi]

I think you have to keep in mind that different girls like different styles.

I prefer pretty/cute over sexy/hot. Others, do not. So it really just depends on the girl. Also, personality plays a big role in everything too.

[Roxie]

oh very true. I've met some very good looking guys who flush all their chances when they open their mouth.

Often the first thing I think about a good looking guy when we're about to have a conversation is "PLEASE, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING STUPID"

[stsparky]

Don't forget that some risks are worth it.

And you can survive stupid if you have charm.

[bluestars87]

Told me... what exactly?

I still don't have any regrets about how I've handled the situation thus far, and I'm especially glad that I haven't just given up, which was/is certainly the easier route to go.

Yes, the friends zone thing is a potential problem, which is why I feel like I have to say/do something soon before that idea gets too far cemented in her head. I'm not expecting her to just drop everything for me, but I figure at least 'planting the seed', so to say, that we could be more than friends, may be enough to at least get her to think twice.
I'll repeat what I said then. I was implying that it might be a good idea to perhaps "move on"...instead of linger around. But it seems like you already did pay attention previously from what I'm reading in your reply.

"Moving on" doesn't necessarily mean you've lost a battle or you're "giving up". I suppose you could look at it that way, but you have to realize that not every girl is going to feel "that way" about you. I personally don't believe in "the one" or "the one that got away either". And after a while enough time is going to pass and you might still be hanging around her trying to acquire her affection...when in reality you might just be in the friendzone.

I mean have you dropped enough hints? Ask yourself if you what you're thinking about doing is more than what you should be doing...in other words potentially putting her on the spot and expressing how you "feel" and getting her to "think twice"...and then potentially waiting even longer or potentially ruining a good friendship.

Of course the decision is yours, but I'd be very surprised if this actually turned out the way you intend it to. Like I said before good luck.

[bluestars87]

Go for it. And yeah, sorry, BE a dick. Otherwise it's always some sort of friend tagging along and something happening. Make it #1 priority to get time alone with her so that you can tell her how you feel.

At this point, I'd settle for a cafe or shop or whatever - don't go silly trying to create the right mood. Just find a place alone and talk.
Now that actually might work depending on how he presents himself. Hopefully it's like you said, more on the serious side, and not so on the cute/friend tagging along/fake anime love crap side.

And when I say "work", I mean getting to the bottom on this charade. I think I would have already lost patience by now and do what you're suggesting and be direct or just move on.

[Plekto]

Not everyone has the lack of patience you or I have, Bluestars ;) Let him go at his own speed(though honestly you gain points by making it clear you want to spend time alone and not tag along)

http://www.youtube.com/user/WongFuProductions
Watch these videos - they're awesome. Especially the "Just a Nice Guy" - don't be this rube. The Breakup Backup is also awesome.

Me - I'm fairly direct and honest as after all of the mind-blowing crap I've been through in my life so far, I've got not a lot to lose and everything to maybe gain(or at least a good few months or years).

[h2orowe]

I mean have you dropped enough hints?
Why drop hints when you can be direct? Most of the time, people of both sexes don't ever even get the hints.

[bluestars87]

Why drop hints when you can be direct? Most of the time, people of both sexes don't ever even get the hints.
Well you don't want to be direct when you don't know the person that well. Let's say I have a classmate who I find cute and attractive and in two classes we've clicked together great. I'm not going to blow everything by "spilling my love" to her the next time I see her...let's say it's a third time. That would be very strange and creepy. I'd probably invite her to hang out or something...that's considered a "hint".

[Digital Masta]

yes, yes, no--his pretty doesn't turn me on.

That's because its that Japanese-girly pretty.

[Ceirnian]

Hairy chests and facial hair, those are two qualities real men have. Screw all this clean shaven, body waxing, man bag carrying guys who think they have it right.

Zangief knows whats what.

[Mastiker]

Hairy chest; yes.

Facial hair; depends.

Right now I'm in a non facial hair mood. It's too much hassle to not shave every day.

[Radiance]

Well, yesterday was positive. I bought a bunch of flowers for my wife's room and showed her what I had been doing in the little free time I have. I took my grandfather's old guitar up to the hospital. She assumed it was cause I wanted her to play it or have it around. She told me she wasn't in the mood to play the guitar and I told her that was fine. I pulled the guitar out and serenaded her with our song "Eleven - Simple Kiss". She cried, the nurses cried, everyone felt loved. Then my wife scared me by sitting up and kissing me on the cheek. I started crying too. :3

I love my wife.

edit: Just for the record, she didn't know I could play the guitar or sing cause I've never done so in front of her. Mostly cause I love hearing her music and it makes her feel good to play it, so I just gladly listen to her play for hours on end.
This is michael wife. I was in icu he brought me flowers but no guitar. I just bought him an electric one a few months ago and he still can't play a chord without an instruction video. He quit his job days after I got the settlement money and still talks bad to me and about me. I'm sick of catching his lies

[puzzo]

*Creepy post*
I don't know either one of you really well so I can't say for certain, but that sounds awfully scary. If I was in a situation like that I wouldn't walk, I would RUN away.

Then again my advice usually sucks, so take from that what you will.

[Plekto]

Ouch. Sorry to hear.

***
On the hairy part though... Some hair is good. Ie - enough to look like you have hair but not ape-man. The general rule is shave your body hair(privates aside of course) roughly once or twice a year as a guy. Keep it well groomed. No back hair or shoulder hair or other ickiness. If you have hair on your ears, seriously get electrolysis on it(1-2 sessions, tops) as it's uber gross. Women want some hair but not a lot(IME). Back and ear and similar hair is an immense turnoff to almost every one.

As for facial hair, the look you want is the 5 o'clock shadow look. Not totally unshaven or rough, but not exactly pretty-boy squeaky clean either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fox_(actor)
That picture's of him clean-shaven, but in most of his shows that he's been on, he has a slightly rougher look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Shephard.

Like he went over his beard with an electric razor once, quickly. He's had this slightly rough around the edges look as part of his acting persona for over a decade.(and women tend to like this level of fake roughness, IME) Some hair, but not tons, either. Sort of a "I'm a civilized outdoors/tough man" look to it. Now, not everyone can pull this off, but it's worth trying if you can, because it gives off all the right vibes to most women. Without actually having to BE a lumberjack or truck driver. Heh.

[Digital Masta]

I don't know either one of you really well so I can't say for certain, but that sounds awfully scary. If I was in a situation like that I wouldn't walk, I would RUN away.

Then again my advice usually sucks, so take from that what you will.

That was creepy wasn't it?

[mugen]

lol wut

[h2orowe]

Well you don't want to be direct when you don't know the person that well. Let's say I have a classmate who I find cute and attractive and in two classes we've clicked together great. I'm not going to blow everything by "spilling my love" to her the next time I see her...let's say it's a third time. That would be very strange and creepy. I'd probably invite her to hang out or something...that's considered a "hint".
You shouldn't be IN LOVE with someone you hardly know, though. However, you shouldn't be like "lol hey CUTIE ;)" and joke around flirting because she'll probably think it's joking. Instead you should just directly ask her out on a date within the first few days of knowing her, if not the very first. The less she knows about you as a friend, the more she'll get to know you as a date.

[archdukezeb]

That was creepy wasn't it?

Yes..... That seriously freaked me out for a second. Why would a dude make up some romantic story bout his wife for one and then how would that women find his username and use his account to refute his story. Things don't add up.

[Relentless]

something i have noticed during this last month or so, or rather something that has been bugging me, is that one of the dynamics of attraction (if i may nerd it up in here, i do so please), disqualification, is so incredibly fucked up. one part of it being oblivious to everyone, as though they are nothing more than guests making a cameo appearance in your life. sitting next to a few girls, and catching sight of them in my periph spying glances of me every few minutes, but staring straight ahead like they dont exist..... and moreover saying things that should declare them unqualified for my standards..... this is so incredibly fucked up and goes against anything and everything etiquette has impressed upon me. and yet? it refuses to stop working when employed. social dynamics concerning dating/attraction is such a clusterfuck wad of messed up.

[bluestars87]

You shouldn't be IN LOVE with someone you hardly know, though. However, you shouldn't be like "lol hey CUTIE ;)" and joke around flirting because she'll probably think it's joking. Instead you should just directly ask her out on a date within the first few days of knowing her, if not the very first. The less she knows about you as a friend, the more she'll get to know you as a date.
Who says you can't be direct without dropping hints? What you're saying now in this statement you weren't in implying in your previous one...in which you were saying just to be direct regardless if you just met the person or not.

In regards to the person we're talking about, he certainly has an obligation to be direct as of now.