Why are We Overweight?

[ruaidhri]

I started this thread because of a discussion in a thread Cnagy started in the Creativity Forum http://www.outpostnine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=978.

McDonalds.
(Don't know if rants/possible comedy goes here, if not, I apologize.)


Have you seen those new McDonald's commercials? Ronald the Clown is running, jumping, climbing trees, re-applying his makeup, working out, playing sports, as a bunch of non-obese kids do so around him. The message? Get fit with Ronald McDonald. Yeah, right, because when I think fitness, I think double-fuckin-quarter pounder, with cheese, hold the onions, super-sized fries, and twelve gallons of coca cola. Get fit with Ronald McDonald.

McDonald's wants to make people get fit? How about they stop selling their grease-bomb hamburgers and carcino-fries? Wait, that would cut into their money, so they take the "eat all the McDonald's you want, and run like a motherfucker" approach to fitness. That's the McDonald's diet, you know. Pick the farthest McDonald's from your house, preferably a route that takes you past a few doberman and at least one gang's teritory. Run there, and buy yourself some McDonald's. Eat it there. Run back. If you can keep that food down on the run back, you obviously didn't pick the farthest McDonald's, cheater. How are you ever going to get slim if you cheat on the McDonald's diet, for fuck sake?

I think McDonald's should be forced to install treadmills in their restaurants, and I think part of their prices should figure that in. You want a Big Mac meal? That's ten minutes on the machine, fatty. You want it supersized? That's another five minutes. Let's see how appealing this food is when you're sweaty and it's greasy. And I don't think it should be just McDonald's. Let's hit every fastfood place. Watch how quickly the nation gets healthier as it either runs its ass off, literally, or gives up fast food.

This will have an effect that I'd like to call the Nagy-Fitness effect, or the Trickle Up Approach to Fitness. As the common joe gets his ass in shape, running from the cops is going to be a hell of a lot easier. Combined with treadmills in, you guessed it, donut shops, our law enforcement officers will have little choice but to lose the gut if they want to catch the guy. As the poor to middle class get fit, the upper middle to upper class will see this and get worried. Every overweight businessman and every bored housewife will end up getting a personal trainer, because part of their self-esteem is derived from being better than you in every possible way, and because they will fear our ability to beat them up, take their wallet, and then outrun the cops who magically appear to protect the rich.

Politicians will have to get in on the game too, because who is going to vote for some guy who is in worse condition than we are? It might have been possible in the past, but one only needs to look at Jesse "The Body" Ventura and Arnold "The Governator (Future Presinator?)" Schwartzenegar to see that the modern american public does not expect its politicians to merely uphold the law and create policy, but also to act as a superhuman group of political heroes who, when push comes to shove, can take matters into their own hands with deadly efficacy.

The Nagy Fitness effect. Hell, people bought into Reaganomics.


I believe the discussion in that thread evolved to a point where it confused the purpose of the Creativity Forum with that of the General Discussion Forum. Cnagy indicted McDonalds and offered a most creative solution. While Cnagy’s post was “tongue in cheek”, the replies, including mine, were more serious and instead of making fun of McDonalds attempted to pinpoint the reasons for obesity. We, including me, stole Cnagy’s thread away from its humorous intent.

So this thread is open for discussion into what makes us fat or thin or just right. We all know being fat is unhealthy so why do we allow ourselves to get that way. In my post to Cnagy’s McDonalds thread, I wrote:

We live in a capitalistic economy. The sole purpose of the capitalist is to grow and constantly make more money. Above all, sales accomplish this goal. While cost cutting is important it accomplishes nothing without sales. So, how do businesses increase sales? They expand into new markets and they make their products more attractive to the consumer.

The fast food industry is just that, an industry. In order to increase its sales it first must create demand for its product and second must be easily available to its customers. Food from fast food franchise tastes good and is designed for you to want more so that you spend more money and they make more profit. Grease and high fructose corn syrup create the desire for more. They also add weight.

Is the fast food industry responsible for individuals that eat too much and get fat and then fatter and then morbidly fat? Is the fast food industry responsible for the diabetes epidemic affecting people of all ages? I say they should be held responsible but probably never will. Everywhere you turn today food advertisements say eat, eat and eat even more. Portions get larger and larger and people honestly believe they’re getting a bargain.

But, doesn’t the individual have to take responsibility for their own actions? I say not when an industry purposely creates desires that they know are unhealthy.

Saying enough is enough isn’t easy. Losing weight isn’t easy. I am 5’ 8” tall. I used to be thin, really thin. When I was 25 and discharged from the Coast Guard, I weighed 117 pounds. By they time I was 29, McDonalds and cokes and beer brought my weight up to 185 pounds. I dieted when I was 30 and dropped my weight to 135 pounds where I kept it for a number of years. Then, I was trapped by fast food again. It was convenient and it tasted good. I lost weight again. This has happened a number of times over my life. Last January I weighed 236 pounds. I started at Weight Watchers. Today, I weigh about 176 pounds. My goal is 160 but I really want to drop down to 150. Maybe in another 6 months I’ll get there. This time I’ve changed how I look at food and how I eat. I’m too old to continue being a Yo-Yo.

What have I learned over the years? I’ve learned that it’s far easier and far more fun to gain weight. It’s definitely not easy nor is it fun to lose weight. It’s sure as hell a lot easier to just give up and have that double or triple Quarter Pounder with Cheese. After all, isn’t that what all the ads are suggesting?

Take a walk down just about any street and count the number of people that aren’t overweight. Consider that each overweight person is a candidate for high blood pressure, heart problems, cancer and, of course, diabetes. The food industry could make more healthy food but then they wouldn’t sell as much. The soda industry could use sugar from sugar cane instead of high fructose corn syrup but then it wouldn’t be a cheap or as sweet or as addicting. And, after all, they’re just giving the people what they want. Right?

This doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that we all bear personal responsibility for our own health. I constantly fight fat. It’s hard in today’s society. We eat the wrong food and we eat too much food. We also eat for the wrong reasons like out of boredom or because were sad, or happy or hurt or pissed or believe we need a reward. There are a thousand reasons we can come up with for eating but there is only one common truth: “If hunger is not the problem then food is not the answer.”

Losing weight is not easy. Overweight people are not dumb or lazy. Usually, they are a thin person trapped in a fat body, which is a hard jail to break out of. They need support, not condemnation. I’m 64 and on my way back to being thin. I’ve lost close to 60 pounds in the past 8 months. I plan on losing another 20 to 25 pounds before I begin to work on maintaining my weight. I needed help to lose my weight. I received that help from Weight Watchers, which is not just a bunch of overweight women lusting after chocolate. It’s both men and women getting thin and helping each other. Our efforts are made all the more difficult by fast food restaurants, including McDonalds.

[h2orowe]

Heh, I'm fat, I'm trying to lose weight, but I just don't really have money. I'm only 15 so I don't have a job, and the only thing I'm doing is cutting back on soda (pretty soon I'm gonna stop drinking it completely), and I stopped snacking. I lost like 20 lbs over summer, and I honestly thought I gained weight, so when I went back on the scale, I was surprised, and happy.
It's pretty bad how much fat people are discriminated in school. We get called names and stuff, but you know, it's all fun, but sometimes people take it too far. I get called Don Vito sometimes, and that is the only name I've ever been called that actually got me mad (if you don't know Don Vito is the mega obese guy from Viva La Bam, he's also extremely stupid; god, I hate Viva La Bam) I get picked on alot too, but I just take it, I've learned to, but I am more prone to fights because of that too, some people think they can push me around because I let them make fun of me (out of like 3 real fights, I won 2, and 2 or 3 other small fights I won all of those) but I still get picked on. No matter how much respect of theirs I earn, they still bug me; now I don't mind if it's like the fat joke, especially if it's another fat person saying it (Being a lineman on the football team was like being in a fat kid brotherhood), but this kid last year, also on the football team, would throw crap at me, and I didn't really know why. It might've been cause of my weight, but it might also be because I'm picked on so much for it. He threw carrots at me, juice cartons, milk cartons, and on one occasion he chucked an apple hard at my chest; at that point I just took off after him and almost caught up, but he was a wide reciever, and I'm but a lineman, so yeah.....
PLF was telling me in the IRC, that I'm worthless for being fat, that it just shows how much I care about myself, and pretty much saying that fat people should be looked down on.


McDonalds does set people up, and it's hard to stop, but I don't think they should get sued for making people fat, maybe for their meat that's horrid, but not for making people fat. People can simply stop eating fast food, or if they do, find a place that serves healthy food instead of grease and soda.

[Shamu]

Joey *hugs* If I could, I would so come to your school and kick those people's ass! No one gets away with making fun of my e-kid! In all seriousness, you are not worthless! Don't ever feel that way! I know it's easier said than done! But it's true!
Even though genetics has been very kind to me (I weigh in at a wopping 110lbs and can eat whatever I want) I still try to avoid things like McDonald's. The food just makes me feel gross and unhealthy. :(

[raevyn]

In response; the majority of Americans are poor; The average family income in my state is 40k despite military personnel. Finding healthier alternitives is a bit harder and quite a bit more expensive since everyone else is also looking for healthy alternatives; I dont want to come home after a 14 hour work day to just make dinner for my family and I; it takes too damn long especially since tehre are 6 of us in this house hold. Sure, dinner does get made but only when people who cook have the days off, other than that its ordering pizza,picking up mc donalds,KFC or Tacobell, its easier to attain and cheaper overall.(Im not saying this is how I live; but just to point out a fact)

[PopCulturePooka]

I don't think McDonalds, or other Fast Food outlets, should bear responsibility for people getting fat. Simple.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. Over eating and lack of exercise do. Weight gain is all about the number of calories consumed and used if you consume more than you use then you will gain weight and vice versa. I have practially lived on fast food and cola my whole life and I don't weight 300lbs and contine to get fatter like you all think I should be. You people should really stop blaming all of your problems on fast food, video games, televsion, music, and anything else you people blame your problems on. Stop whining and start taking responsibility for your own actions.

[Praetorian]

PLF was telling me in the IRC, that I'm worthless for being fat, that it just shows how much I care about myself, and pretty much saying that fat people should be looked down on.


That's pretty damn mean of him to say. PLF, some people actually can't really help being fat. H2orowe, I support you man. Cut back on soda *completely* and drink at least two litres of water today. It got me from being the fat kid in class to the man I am today. And trust me. I am quite a man today.



Also, some people have a faster metabolism than others. Blaming people for being fat when you're thin and can eat all you want is moronic. Some people do get proper excercise, more than you even, and can't eat half as much to gain weight twice as fast. Just leave people be.


That said though, I also agree that fast foods restaurants don't need to bear the responsibility of keeping you thin. The food is unhealthy, you know that, yet you eat it.

[Loc]

heh I agree with not blaming McDonalds and all that, you do have a choice.

Anyway yeah, I just drink green tea like all day, try and eat healthy, not like look at packaging and stuff, you kinda just know what's not that bad for you ;p

Also, working out helps a load.
I've been cutting back a lot recently so bought some weights the other day, I always go for the "try till you die" approach when exercising, which is kinda like just go until you can't anymore and then force that little bit more out :P
It is kinda hard and I end up injuring myself but...meh I'm weird >_<

I'm hardly the fittest person ever or anything but I'm pretty happy with myself and I don't have to check every little ingredient in food because carbs and protein isn't balanced or some crap.

[PopCulturePooka]

Ahhh stealth edit.

Yeah. Thats what pisses me off, the people who bitch that Macca's has made them humonous Ham Bags. Well... fucking der fatty. Why did you eat it? What the sam hell did you expect?

Its even more annoying when everyone else has to have something taken away because some Lard Arses can't control their eating habits or lifestyle. Eg when McD's killed Super Size meals. So people who eat responsibly and enjoy a rather large coke have to suffer because Barry Blimp Bum was an idiot?

Its ridiculous. People get shitty and form lobby groups against a Fast Food chain when they release a high calorie burger? Heres a clue Meat Wad. Don't eat the fucking burger. And if you do, don't sure McDonalds/Burger King/KFC when your fat arse can't fit into one plane seat anymore.

[Pfalzer]

Yeha i agree gree with Pooka mc donalds isnt dictating you have to eat their food. Bo one does matter of fact you don't have to eat any food. So sueing the corporation shouldnt even be considered. A smatter of fact the corporation should counter suit just for the waste of time those poeple create.

[NERD]

In response; the majority of Americans are poor; The average family income in my state is 40k despite military personnel. Finding healthier alternitives is a bit harder and quite a bit more expensive since everyone else is also looking for healthy alternatives; I dont want to come home after a 14 hour work day to just make dinner for my family and I; it takes too damn long especially since tehre are 6 of us in this house hold. Sure, dinner does get made but only when people who cook have the days off, other than that its ordering pizza,picking up mc donalds,KFC or Tacobell, its easier to attain and cheaper overall.(Im not saying this is how I live; but just to point out a fact)

40k for average income is actually pretty good- I'm from Georgia, worked some odd jobs here and there, and many people stuggle to make more than 20k-30k per year. Maybe with a job after college, they can start with something that pays more than 30k- my sister just started as a teacher, and gets 30k.

I remember there was a book written by a French woman making a point about how French women stay fitter than their American counterparts. Well, if Americans could work just 35 hours per week while making some good amount of money, I guess we could spend more time eating healtheir food.

It's even worse if you have a job with many hours, where the lunch hour is usually an hour or less. It takes time just to get out of the office, pick up some food and actually EAT. So sitting down in a restaurant and wait 20-30 minutes for a food is out of question. Fastfood, where it takes perhaps 5-10 minutes is the only viable choice, so if you want to eat healthy, you have to choose between McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy's, or Subway, if there's one nearby.

[Random]

That's pretty damn mean of him to say. PLF, some people actually can't really help being fat. H2orowe, I support you man. Cut back on soda *completely* and drink at least two litres of water today. It got me from being the fat kid in class to the man I am today. And trust me. I am quite a man today.

Really?
I have fast food once every 1 or 2 (or, more recently, 3 or more) months, and drink nothing but water.
Quite simply, I don't like carbonated drinks, nor flavoured drinks.

And yet...

I'm geussing it's the lack of excerise, or something. I walk for about 20 minutes every day with a medium load, but that's it, pretty much.

Oh, and I agree that fast food chains should not be responsible for people getting fat.
It's like a drug dealer being blamed because people got addicted and die and such.

[Pfalzer]

Its cheaper to make ur own food so poor people have no excuse also....

[Praetorian]

Really?
I have fast food once every 1 or 2 (or, more recently, 3 or more) months, and drink nothing but water.
Quite simply, I don't like carbonated drinks, nor flavoured drinks.

And yet...

I'm geussing it's the lack of excerise, or something. I walk for about 20 minutes every day with a medium load, but that's it, pretty much.

Oh, and I agree that fast food chains should not be responsible for people getting fat.
It's like a drug dealer being blamed because people got addicted and die and such.


I forgot to mention I also practice Karate twice a week. That might help.

[ellie]

Skinniness runs in my family, but my oldest sister is the smalles of us. We're the same height, but she's ten pounds lighter--she's 5'7" and 100 pounds. That's a pretty skinny person. She never, ever exercises. She eats all the crap she wants to. In fact, she's USUALLY eating. It's ridiculous. But, no one ever tells her, "Get off your fat lazy ass and get some exercise", but that's the type of thing an overweight person WOULD hear. My point is, not all overweight people can HELP being overweight. And just cuz you're skinny doesn't mean you work out and diet constantly.

[Pfalzer]

Well you usually dont start out fat. And ye syou can help it just take smore tiem and energy for some people due to variation in metaoblism conversion of lipids etc. Im about 6 ft 6'1" everyone calls me a stick but i don think i am. SOem people say ive bulked up a little i dont even work out. Well all i can say is when u start down the path of the darkside forever will it dominate your destiny. or somethign liek that. You jus have to do a 180 and stop what you are doing intak eway less and the stuff you do intak emake sure you burn it off. All it is is very hard work.

[raevyn]

40k for average income is actually pretty good- I'm from Georgia, worked some odd jobs here and there, and many people stuggle to make more than 20k-30k per year. Maybe with a job after college, they can start with something that pays more than 30k- my sister just started as a teacher, and gets 30k.

I remember there was a book written by a French woman making a point about how French women stay fitter than their American counterparts. Well, if Americans could work just 35 hours per week while making some good amount of money, I guess we could spend more time eating healtheir food.

It's even worse if you have a job with many hours, where the lunch hour is usually an hour or less. It takes time just to get out of the office, pick up some food and actually EAT. So sitting down in a restaurant and wait 20-30 minutes for a food is out of question. Fastfood, where it takes perhaps 5-10 minutes is the only viable choice, so if you want to eat healthy, you have to choose between McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy's, or Subway, if there's one nearby.


forgot to mention thats average middle class; cost of living is minimum 55k.

[Kuhool]

the best way to lose fat and get in shape - working out. <<< period

[Mechs]

Well working out helps but not entirely for....for me anyway. I work out out 2-3 times a week and I havent really lost any weight. I've built muscle and stamine (sp?) but havent really lost any weight which was my objective in the first place. I guess it time for me to start dieting too :(.

[Soli]

I'm at the age where you can basicly eat all you want and not gain much, if not any, weight. Not to brag, but I've got a nice body shape. The thing is, I don't really care. I'm not one of the girls who wear short skirts and tight tops.

People say it's like I'm on a diet, but I like to eat healthy foods! I'd take a bowl of fruit over a bag of chips anyday! :D

[CNagy]

the best way to lose fat and get in shape - working out. <<< period

Actually, that is completely wrong. The most important component in fitness is a proper diet. The right diet will melt the pounds off of an overweight person without any change in exercise, exercise just adds to it.

My original post was very tongue-in-cheek. I don't eat fast food, because I think for the most part it tastes like shit. I can't get past the fact that there is an obscene amount of grease laying just below the wrapper. Having seen the McDonald's commercial though, I felt the urge to write something in response.

Fast food doesn't make you fat. Over eating and lack of exercise do. Weight gain is all about the number of calories consumed and used if you consume more than you use then you will gain weight and vice versa.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Portions only matter depending on the food you are eating. If I eat rice, brocolli, and chicken, it doesn't matter that I am having 6 normal sized meals a day; I'm not going to gain weight, and if I am overweight, I'm going to experience weight loss. That said, fast food does make you fat, because in one meal you are essentially getting the caloric intake of 2 meals, depending on the size and meal that you choose, and not a whole lot of those calories are useful calories, some are easier to convert into energy and some (calories from fat) are harder to use.

I'm only 15 so I don't have a job, and the only thing I'm doing is cutting back on soda (pretty soon I'm gonna stop drinking it completely)
Cutting soda completely out of your dieting and doing absolutely nothing else will shave about 10 pounds off a year as long as you are overweight.

Bottom Line About Weight Loss: The first step to losing weight is pretty counter-intuitive. Eat more. You have to eat the right food, of course, but a restricted calorie diet tends to make your body hold on that much more to the fat stores that it already has. Too low of a calorie intake, and your body thinks it is starving, and rations its stores accordingly.

Eat alot of lean protein (chicken, lean ground turkey, lean beef, tuna, eggs) eat alot of good carbs (rice, wheat bread, brown rice, stay away from enriched anything,) and have some vegetables (brocolli, corn, beans.) Don't eat carbs later in the day; carbs are meant as a long term source of fuel and anything you go to sleep on will not be used, and thus stored. Spread your meals out about every 4 hours if possible. Try to have 4 meals a day. This alone, without exercise, is enough to start a steady loss in weight.

Fatty's Revenge- The skinny people have a problem that we generally don't; putting on lean mass is harder for them. We can bulk up with relative ease and the right workout routine-- again, this seems counterintuitive because you gain weight at first, but it is muscle weight. Muscle burns calories 24 hours a day; the more muscle mass you have, the higher your natural metabolism becomes. This is why body builders have 4000-5000 calorie diets.

Work out in the morning, if at all possible. The human body generally assimilates 35 grams of protein a day to reknit and strengthen muscle that has been torn (which is what working out does.) The catch is that it does it in short spurts throughout the day, and there is no real way to determine when it will happen. This is why it is best to eat at least four meals a day, evenly spaced, and work out in the morning-- you are giving yourself the best possible returns on your work.

At the start of this year, I was 330 pounds. I got that big primarily because I love good food, and a hip injury curbed my exercise but not my appetite. I am now 270, though if I didn't have the increased muscle that I do now I'd probably be closer to 240 or 250. Losing weight, in the end, isn't necessarily about the exercise, it's about the mindset. It's about discipline, and it's about wanting it badly enough to want to make a change.

[NERD]

forgot to mention thats average middle class; cost of living is minimum 55k.

Cost of living is minumum 55k? Where are you coming from? From what I know, the average middle class makes somewhere between 35k-55k per year. If the cost of living is 55k per year, that would be the high middle class/upper class.

I think the problem with obesity in America is the lack of discipline. People say they don't know how to eat healthy; bullcrap. They just eat they want to eat and give excuses. As losing weight or maintaining a decent shape is a lot of work too, they'd rather give some excuses and feel less guilty. It's proven how being obese is unhealthy, blah blah blah...

That said, people with weight issues being ridiculed and discriminated is not right. Shows the kind of people they are.

[Pfalzer]

I second Kubons notion all in favor say "Aye" then say "Moo" then sign these forms in triplicate then bend over... :confused:

[DarkFire168]

h2orowe: Here's what you do, take bricks/cinderblocks/heavy rocks/metal/anything that is really fucking heavy and put as much as possible into a backpack, then every night after about an hour after dinner, grab a bottle of gatorade (NOT WATER, you will dehydrate from lack of electorlytes and DIE if you take water with you) and run. Doesn't matter how fast, doesn't matter how far, even if it's just a walk, go around your block with that pack on for at LEAST an hour. I did this and lowered my cholestrol, built up my leg muscles, built up my stamina and lost weight. Dont' drink soda or eat sweets anymore, those are killer for a good diet. Get some weights, or go to your school gym or something. If there's a weight lifting class offered at your HS work it into your schedule. Drink ALOT OF WATER during the day. On your runs and exercises though, take gatorade. Also, beat the shit out of anyone who talks trash to you about your weight, it's a great way to burn calories and toughen up your arm muscles a good bit.

Shamu: *Pats her on the head*

Pooka: You're right, no one is forced to eat fast food and restaurants/fast food joints shouldn't be held accountable for someone getting fat on their food. It's as ridiculous as people who smoke, knowing full well the consequences, and then sue the tobacco companies. It's ridiculous.

Loc: You're as insane as I am.

[Arctic_Slicer]

I am the kind of person who drinks like 6 cans of cola a day and eats fast food 5 or 6 times a week and I haven't notice any significant weight change for a long time. All I know is that my diet has pretty much been the same way all of my life and I don't have major weight or health problems like alot of people assume I should have.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I have not ONCE said that he is worthless.

Unfortunately I don't have logs of the conversation, but perhaps someone else does and can post them. I told him, plain and simple, that blaming one's weight on the problems that someone has in their life is an excuse. I told him that being overweight is unhealthy. I told him that he should stop calling himself 'the fat kid' and doing something about it.

And there is nothing incorrect or insulting about that.

My sister is obese. And everyone in my family (all of us relatively trim) get on her about it, because it's unhealthy. Why is it that people can sit around and condemn me for smoking cigarettes because it's bad for my health, yet commenting on the weight of someone who clearly isn't a victim of genetics (as opposed to practicing poor dietary habits) is somehow taboo?

h2orowe constantly comments on this forum about how he's fat. He uses it as this sort of pity card, and then claims he doesn't. Fuckit. If you're fat, then do something about it. Get help. Eat less. Excercise more. The amount of people who are fat solely because of genetics are very few and very far between.

[Invictus]

I concur with Pierrot. Being overweight is (for 99.99% of the population, at least), fundamentally a choice. Sure, it's easy to eat that extra bag of potato chips, and sure, it's hard to make yourself do that daily run around the park, but it ultimately boils down to whether or not you have the will to stay in shape or not.

The overweight should be given sympathy--after all, which one of us doesn't have some vice or other that needs improvement?--but they have no right to expect it as a matter of course. If someone is overweight and actively doing something to rectify the situation, they have my support and best wishes for success. I have no pity, however, for those who are overweight and make no real effort to better their condition, complaining all the while.

[4letterwords]

I don't like the way this thread is going, really.

Some people, SOME people, are genetically more prone to being overweight. But Americans are not more genetically prone to it than any other country's people, so when most Americans say something like "It's a thyroid problem" or "My parents were fat, so I'm fat" its a load of crap.

It's not McDonalds fault that their food is making people fat, period. I personally hate McDonalds, but thats because I have a weak stomach, and it makes me nauseous (sp?) to even think about it. But just because I think about it that way, doesn't mean I expect everyone to and blame them for liking it so much.

Being a college student, it's really hard to avoid eating fast food. I am proof of that, because I really hate fast food because it makes me sick, but I still eat it because of lack of time. If I want to eat lunch at all, I have to eat it across campus because theres no time between my classes to go back to my dorm. The healthiest thing you can get there is a Boca burger. I probably have to eat real fast food (McDonalds, Burger King, etc) probably 2 times a week because there really is nothing else available. Mon., Wed., and Fri. I don't have class till 2 so I can eat in my dorm. I don't think people understand that just because something works for them, doesn't mean it works for someone else. Everyone on here has been giving people ideas (ie what helped THEM) and saying things like 'it's the best way' or 'its the only way'. Unless any of us have met the person at hand on a regular basis, and understand their body and way of life, we have no idea what's 'best for them'.

Also, calling someone fat is rude, I don't care how fat they are. It's rude, plain and simple. But then again, I also think its rude to bitch to someone because they smoke. It works both ways. I would never get on someone's case because they harmed their body (Overeating, smoking, alcohol, drugs) because unless they're flat out ignorant, they know what they're doing, and they know it's bad for them. And teasing them to their face isn't going to get them to suddenly get the motivation to do it, either. If anything, it's just going to depress them and make them feel worthless. Sure, maybe you think its best to just tell them what's what and let them do what they think is right, but it's not going to help them and it's not your place.

I don't have the best body in the world, and yes, it's my fault for not working out as much as I should. But I'm not disapointed with my body. I'm not a size 2 like a model (I'm a 7), but I'm not overweight.

It's funny, I looked over H2orowe's post and no where did it says "Please guys, give me advice", or "Aww man I'm fat feel sorry for me". What he said was true, overweight people do get teased and it's sad. Just because someone's overweight doesn't mean they deserve to get picked on. And just because someone is skinny/pretty/rich/etc DOES NOT give them ANY right to look down on other people. How pathetic it is that someone who was blessed with good looks, money, or is skinny (naturally, or by hard work) thinks they have the right to tease someone who doesn't. I don't care if you worked everyday for 7 hours a day to get down 10 dress sizes, that doesn't mean you recieve a certificate stating you have the right to make fun of those who haven't. This goes for anyone.

I'm actually quite disapointed by some of the people on this board right now. I'm surprised that some people have the guts to say what they said. Some people need a swift kick in the face, I think.

[Invictus]

And just because someone is skinny/pretty/rich/etc DOES NOT give them ANY right to look down on other people.

I concur, to an extent. However, if I'm skinny because I regulate my diet and exercise, or rich because I worked my tail end off to make a successful business, then yes, I do have the right to look down on those who wallow in self-pity and express nothing but envy and jealousy toward the "more fortunate." The word "can't" is quite ugly for the simple reason that man can achieve pretty much anything he sets his mind on accomplishing. If you're dissatisfied with the present state of affairs, don't complain, just CHANGE IT.

How pathetic it is that someone who was blessed with good looks, money, or is skinny (naturally, or by hard work) thinks they have the right to tease someone who doesn't. I don't care if you worked everyday for 7 hours a day to get down 10 dress sizes, that doesn't mean you recieve a certificate stating you have the right to make fun of those who haven't. This goes for anyone.

This I will agree with entirely. It's one thing to disdain, but quite another to belittle.

[4letterwords]

I concur, to an extent. However, if I'm skinny because I regulate my diet and exercise, or rich because I worked my tail end off to make a successful business, then yes, I do have the right to look down on those who wallow in self-pity and express nothing but envy and jealousy toward the "more fortunate." The word "can't" is quite ugly for the simple reason that man can achieve pretty much anything he sets his mind on accomplishing. If you're dissatisfied with the present state of affairs, don't complain, just CHANGE IT.



This I will agree with entirely. It's one thing to disdain, but quite another to belittle.

I suppose I agree. But only if the person is the said ^ personality.

By the way, I lived in Gifu... hope you like the hot weather :P

[Benaire]

I work hard in for both money and physical fittness and I take pride in the achievements i have managed. I believe other people have the ability to do the same if they want it badly enough. Joey seems to be doing a good job losing weight losing weight too fast is never a good thing.

The only people i really look down apon are thoses people who whine about it and not do something about it and or just have excuses.

[koku]

You'd be surprised how genetics does make a difference. It's like blaming someone with a handicap for not running as fast as you (the one with the fast metabolism, the one who can eat whatever you'd like).

[time99]

I don't mind fat people. I don't mind fat people that don't care if they're fat. What I do mind is fat people who complain about being fat and don't do anything about it. Some people complain that they don't have time to exercise or the money to buy healthy food. If they just ate a little bit healther [/fast food] and even ran for as little as 15 minutes a day, they would notice a world of difference. My diet fluctuates a lot and I can't stand when I'm not in shape. It just makes you feel bad and gives you the attitude that you don't want to do anything but sit around. So raise up your right hand and make a change to your life! (yeah that was kind of gay, but in all seriousness, stop complaining about being fat)

[NERD]

What scares me is the idea of superiority that people tend to have when they are better looking than others. Oooooh, you look like a model, girls/guys fawn over you, you get better treatment than others simply based upon the fact that you are physically attractive, and you act that you are so much better than us. Or you are better than the rest of us unfit, unattractive people because you eat healthy, work out constantly, and are such a driven person to do so.

I did say being overweight is a health concern, but that doesn't mean you can look down on people with weight issues. I see that trend especially a lot with people who had the same problem in the past but now is fitter than ever. People all make their choices, some may be more driven, some not, but that doesn't mean you can look down on people or belittle them. It's the trend of this society, where being obese is becoming the sign of incompetance.

Lay off the people with the weight issues. If they want to lose/gain weight, it's their problem. Not yours.

[Anubis Nine]

I'm not as thin as I'd like to be, but by no means am I overweight for my body type. I'm on the pudgy side of middling weight. I currently weigh 168 pounds or so (Give or take five pounds) and I am 5'5''. I used to look about the same and weigh 186 pounds. Actual weight and fat ratios depends on the body type. (When it comes to me I've got a solid bone structure and muscles)

But aside from that, I'm fairly active. I walk to school and I eat fairly healthy. What amazed me was my boyfriend exclaiming on just how *much* I eat.

As far as I can see, what makes North Americans fat is that we eat more than most, and we drive/ride the bus/get driven most everywhere. I do it too and it's fairly disgusting sometimes. I can easily ride my bike across town and it only takes me about an hour. But I don't.

I'm quite sure I'd be thinner if I curbed the (apparently enormous) amount of food I eat, and if I actually used my bike more often in the city. Something I plan on looking into.

There are lots of fat people out there that yes, whine about being fat. I'm friends with some of them. And I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me mad. Other than producing more oppritunities for them to eat healthier and excersice more with me. I can't really do anything. (Inviting the one on a hike with my dad and I was a mistake though, the poor thing)

[Firefly]

I

Being a college student, it's really hard to avoid eating fast food. I am proof of that, because I really hate fast food because it makes me sick, but I still eat it because of lack of time. If I want to eat lunch at all, I have to eat it across campus because theres no time between my classes to go back to my dorm.



Exactly.

I'm at school from 10 am to 8pm most days. I have maybe one or two dollars a day I'm allowed to spend. Let me tell you, Taco Bell starts to look really good when all you have is a dollar.

[Pierrot le Fou]

You know, veggies and whatnot really aren't that expensive. While it may seem cheap and easy to go somewhere for fast food, cooking yourself is a Hell of a lot healthier and cheaper if you buy intelligently. That's even true in Japan.

Fuck excuses. People go to fast food for two reasons:
1) It's easier
2) The taste

I despise the taste for the most part (I have a soft-spot for a sausage egg mcmuffins due to the lack of real breakfast in this country), but I will go occasionally because it's just easier than cooking up some pasta, or some soup, or some curry for myself. But aside from those two reasons, there is no other reason to go to a fast food joint.

Take responsibility for your own health. So long as there is state-subsidized healthcare (medicare and medicaid, as well as social security benefits for those unable to work), it is your responsibility to stay healthy. And while you could say the same thing about smoking, you'd be entirely wrong, because the health dangers of smoking tend to be early death (no pension) and a brief terminal illness in the case of lung cancer. Either way, we're going to be paying more taxes (over a dollar a pack, to several in some states, on top of sales tax) and receiving fewer benefits.

Being fat reduces productivity, increases healthcare costs over a long term (diabetes anyone?), and while it increases mortality, it doesn't with the same certainty as smoking does, and is far more costly in the interim.

Quite frankly, fat people sicken me. I don't mean rough around the edges (because with 20% body fat, I'm no beanpole myself), I mean gloriously obese. And the fact that people defend that lifestyle with arguments about genetics, blah blah blah, disgusts me. It's just foul. Do you know what the rest of the world, especially Japan, thinks of foreigners? Do you know what people here say after coming back from Australia or the US? They say that they are shocked at how FAT we are. And it's true.

I work hard to keep myself in relative shape. I go to the gym (a luxury I know, but anyone can run -- gym or not), I work to eat healthier than I did (less fatty foods, more vegetables, swap out white rice for brown rice, etc.), and I diet when I need to.

I've cut soda almost entirely out of my diet (maybe two sodas a month). And I feel great.

So much of this isn't impossible to do. Anyone can cut soda out of their diet by drinking tap water. And tap water will make your teeth better, and is practically free (and available anywhere you go). Making yourself cold unsweetened tea is relatively cheap as well, and will help you lose weight over drinking soda, as well as having taste if water just doesn't do it for you. Anyone can find 30 minutes a day to run in. I don't give a shit HOW busy you claim your life is, because most of us spend at least 30 mintues on here a day, or elsewhere wasting time.

Do a few situps every morning. That will increase muscle in your gut, and increase your metabolism, as well as having the muscle burn fat away from your gut. Other free-weight and no-weight excercises can also be done without any equipment.

It just takes willpower. And that's where the whining comes in. Because people like to make excuses when it comes to do something hard. And for some unknown reason, people like to pity the lazy.

If you're fat and working on it, then good for you. If you're fat and using it as a sympathy point, or put it in conversations where it doesn't belong, then it's your own bloody fault and you should work on your weight. h2orowe is a member of the latter group, as he interjects the fact that he's 'the fat kid' into conversations where it doesn't belong, and he whined when I pointed out what I had a problem with (his attitude and lack of self-confidence coupled with his constant remarks about how he's fat).

Then he has the gall to contribute to this thread stating that I called him worthless for being fat?

That's just a load of shit. He's sitting there and entirely misrepresenting what I said in a cry for pity because big bad PLF just stated that if he's fat he either needs to do something about it, or stop whining, because it's going to make him miserable/does make him miserable judging from his comments on the matter. Go ahead and find a log of the conversation if you'd like, because I did NOT call him 'worthless' that's just what he wanted to hear because he was being defensive and refusing to listen.

The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem.

Don't be a prick about it.

[Myrsilus]

... I really hate to say this, but I do agree with PLF to some extent. I'm not exactly disgusted with obese people unless they seem to neglect all aspects of proper health along with their weight problem. I can't really say I'd date an obese person, though... Obese, not pudgy.

He's right, too. Vegetables don't cost a lot of money. If you really need to have a healthy meal and don't have too much money, salads are great. Add a little ham or bacon or whatever you want if you want a little meat. And there are many cheap meats out there on the market. Part of making an effort to become thinner is doing things you don't necessarily like.

Working out does not always require weights... That's why we have push ups, crunches, leg raises, aerobics, jump ropes, legs for jogging and sprinting... I think you get the picture. Your body, itself, can be a very effective machine for losing weight and gaining muscle. You just have to make the effort.

People that feel sad about their weight and lament about it openly... It's not a problem to me as long as it does not become who they are. And h2 does not seem to be identified by this sort of behavior. I can't really blame people like h2 since I have witnessed some pretty harsh treatment of obese people. I just hope you, h2, are using this to push yourself to eat right and become more active in your daily life.

I am not the healthiest person in the world... If I wanted that, I would not eat any fast food and not do other things that may cause me to be less than healthy. I work out, practice martial arts, try to get enough sleep (Though I have a hard time doing this), and I try to eat as healthy as I can. Vegetables everyday. But I also don't eat too much fruit and I don't drink all the milk I should. But I make whatever efforts my life can afford, and that's something great.

Part of becoming slimmer and more healthy overall takes determination. Actually, that may be the whole part of it all. I remember hearing once that training is putting effort into something to improve onself when one does not want to put the effort anymore. That is how people truly improve their health... So when I hear excuses all the time, I get a little annoyed.

And just for the record... Neko. My mother has a hyperactive thyroid caused by cancer cells. And the disorder does make it extremely hard for her to lose weight. It's not just an excuse... She will need to either have radiation treatment or hope that these ionized pills (I think) will help matters. Not only is she having problems losing any weight, but she also has major depression sometimes, bad headaches, insomnia, and other hindering symptoms... all induced by this thyroid disorder. So please don't say that it is not a good excuse. My mother eats lots of salads and tries to keep fit, but it is not working because of this disorder. I do get that you are saying that this is not a valid excuse sometimes, but sometimes it is...

[Pfalzer]

http://myspace-176.vo.llnwd.net/00237/67/18/237838176_l.jpg

I will beat the fat out of you for free!!!

[NERD]

Being fat reduces productivity, increases healthcare costs over a long term (diabetes anyone?), and while it increases mortality, it doesn't with the same certainty as smoking does, and is far more costly in the interim.

Smoking does affect productivity, especially if you are someone who have to smoke quite often, say half a pack to multiple packs a day. I found my coworkers who smoked taking frequent cigarette breaks during the day, going for that five-ten minute break, and I'd see them getting all antsy if they had another craving going. One of the reasons I've quit. Also, the smell of smoke can bother others. Fat people don't have that, unless they are loud and obnoxious, but this is an affliction that doesn't depend on the weight.

Quite frankly, fat people sicken me. I don't mean rough around the edges (because with 20% body fat, I'm no beanpole myself), I mean gloriously obese. And the fact that people defend that lifestyle with arguments about genetics, blah blah blah, disgusts me. It's just foul. Do you know what the rest of the world, especially Japan, thinks of foreigners? Do you know what people here say after coming back from Australia or the US? They say that they are shocked at how FAT we are. And it's true.

The Japanese can say such things because they don't have that many fat people. But obesity is a growing trend in Japan as well-
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/72/5/1379S
The culprit would be the increased energy intake, compared to few centuries ago when food supply was much scarce and people suffered from poor nutritions. And with the amount of artificial crap they are putting into the food, it is not hard to resist the unhealthy food out there. It was well documented in Supersize me.

While I do agree that obesity is a problem, it's your perception and logic concerning obese people that scares me. Maybe they lack the will power to get up the couch, eat better, tasteless food and work out to lose weight and look more charming and whatnot, but it's their decision, like how you are sticking to smoking despite you're well aware how unhealthy it is and how smokers are frowned upon by the general population. If you start hating such people and considering weak because they lack the will power to change themselves, that's leaning into Fascism than anything, because you are putting healthy, fit people over obese people.

[Invictus]

If you start hating such people and considering weak because they lack the will power to change themselves, that's leaning into Fascism than anything, because you are putting healthy, fit people over obese people.

You *are* a weaker person if you pointedly ignore a deficiency. Like I said, I have nothing but respect for those to whom weight is a problem they're doing their utmost to solve. Those who masochistically glory in the self-pity of being fat, however, deserve no sympathy. (Of course, if for some reason someone ENJOYS being fat, then I just think they're weird. :P)

It's the same with smoking. If someone truly thinks that smoking benefits them, then more power to them, weird though they are. If someone recognizes that smoking was a mistake and is seriously intent on quitting, they have nothing but my respect. However, someone who smokes and then moans and groans about getting lung cancer deserves no accolades whatsoever.

[pva_glue]

"Being a college/ (we call it University here in down under :p) student, it's really hard to avoid eating fast food."

That's exactly my situation

I have no excuses, I have free Gym membership which I go pretty much 4/7 days :)
I pump weights hence I get bigger (weights more) but it gets deflated within 30 min of working out.

I have extra weight I want o loose but I cant cuz I dotn watch what I eat.

at the end of the day, you have to balance out your life and your diet.

Eveyone want to be healthy!!! but are you willing to put in the work and time?!

JUST do it!!! only need half hour of exercise - anykind of exercise!


'The three causative fators that had been most studied as initiators of neoplatic transformation (cancer) are chorosomal alteratoin, exposure to envirinmental and chemical carcinogens and infectoin by oncogenic viruse' - from my biochemistry II notes :p

[Pierrot le Fou]

Actually, I wouldn't give a flying fuck what anyone did as long as it didn't affect others. Unfortunately it does because of the welfare state, and the fact that healthy people have to subsidize the unhealthy. While society has responded with countless taxes on smokers, and a major reduction in the benefits that smokers will receive, despite talk of a fast food tax and the like, there's nothing going on that front yet, and so society suffers FAR more from obesity than from smoking.

So yeah, I'm going to pick healthy fit people over the obese, and I would classify healthy people who don't do the same as being a tad bit behind the curve.

There's nothing fascist about that. I'm not suggesting Singapore-esque mandatory excercise for the tubby. I'm just saying that if I'm going to be forced to subsidize your poor eating/excercise habits, I'm going to do my part to point out that you're being a poor member of society and wasting my dollars, and you should do something about it. I am also a cruel bastard who refuses to give money to beggars, but will show them to shelters in the area, help them get food, or try to find a work program to join if they show interest (and they rarely rarely do).

There are lazy people in all walks of life. All full-time workers in the US are given a 5 minute break per hour (though in factories it often becomes 15 minutes per 3 hours in the form of a coffee break or somesuch because of time constraints with mass production), and if I use it to smoke, so be it. There are people who take 30 minutes on the crapper reading ESPN.com print-outs they printed on company printers, and they're lazy despite being non-smokers. There are people who play net-chess all day, or browse the internet. Smoking or not.

Obese people become at a certain point INCAPABLE of doing their jobs properly. We had one guy in our office who had to have a special chair, and had to have all meetings in or next to his cubicle because of his reduced mobility. Any amount of willpower (which plenty of smokers have -- I've never had to reschedule a meeting for a smoke break thanks) will not change the fact that he can't move unless he gets thin.

Smoking and being obese are not equivalent. To pretend they are is to ignore reality. And that bothers me.

[NERD]

Actually, I wouldn't give a flying fuck what anyone did as long as it didn't affect others. Unfortunately it does because of the welfare state, and the fact that healthy people have to subsidize the unhealthy. While society has responded with countless taxes on smokers, and a major reduction in the benefits that smokers will receive, despite talk of a fast food tax and the like, there's nothing going on that front yet, and so society suffers FAR more from obesity than from smoking.

What about the old people? Though they paid for their social security to get that check every month, it is not coming out from their pocket but from the youngsters who are working today. Even in Japan, that is becoming a problem, as well as many developed countries where as the general populations gets older and out of the work force, it is the people who are working and in their prime who have to support the older population. But the obese people paying more than smokers in terms of medical insurance would make sense. Oh, and obese people are not likely to get a job because of their weight, so wouldn't you say it all balances out somehow? This is what American Obesity Association is whining about-
http://www.obesity.org/discrimination/employment.shtml

Also, Michigan is the only state that prohibits employment discrimination
based on weight, so that should help a bit, eh?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry that I must disagree, but I'm someone who believes that everyone must be treated equally regardless of

So yeah, I'm going to pick healthy fit people over the obese, and I would classify healthy people who don't do the same as being a tad bit behind the curve.

I'm sorry that I am very behind, but I'm someone who believes that everyone must be treated equally regardless of their disabilities, whether that would be obesity, mentally incapable, or other physical disabilities like being blind, deaf, whatever. Actually, Hitler was someone who killed physically disabled people along with the Jews, Gypsys, and other race. MAYBE he was building the perfect empire?

There's nothing fascist about that. I'm not suggesting Singapore-esque mandatory excercise for the tubby. I'm just saying that if I'm going to be forced to subsidize your poor eating/excercise habits, I'm going to do my part to point out that you're being a poor member of society and wasting my dollars, and you should do something about it. I am also a cruel bastard who refuses to give money to beggars, but will show them to shelters in the area, help them get food, or try to find a work program to join if they show interest (and they rarely rarely do).

Ever thought about helping others who can't help themselves because you have the ability/compassion to help others? Call me a naive fool, but I act that way. There are different aspects in the society, and certain things cannot be changed at all. If that is so, might as well be nice about it than grumble.

Smoking and being obese are not equivalent. To pretend they are is to ignore reality. And that bothers me.

No they are not. I never said that. But if you feel strongly about discrimination against smokers, put yourself into the position of the obese. While I do understand why some people smoke, being an ex-smoker myself like relieving stress, getting a mental stimulation like caffeine, smoking on general decreases your life expectancy into half. Wouldn't that be a problem with productivity on the long term? Smoking has its own health hazards such as increasing the likelihood of developing a heart disease, high blood pressure, and buliding up cholesterol level in the artery, not to mention the effects it has to people exposed to second hand smoking.

[Pierrot le Fou]

So because I think that obesity shouldn't be congratulated or condoned, it means I am Hitler and want to kill off all fat people?

Gee, way to use hyperbole, eh?

Fat people reduce their productivity, increase the strain on society, and that sucks. Old people paid for the Social Security of the generation before them, as well as generating tax revenues while they were working. They have earned the right to get some cash back (though they're getting far more was intended through social security, which is where the problem lies). Fat people are cutting their productivity short (through inability to work, and collecting unemployment/disability).

Smokers may die 15 years earlier, which will cut their productivity short, but it will also cut the benefits received from working way down too. There have been studies done on the impact of smokers on the economy, and smokers actually BENEFIT society because of the increased taxes and decreased life expectancy. That's not the same with the overweight/obese.

I do not have compassion towards those unwilling to help themselves. Why should I give a bum cash if he isn't willing to even TRY to find work with my help? And why should I condone the behaviour of an obese person if they aren't willing to TRY to lose that weight? I'm not talking half-ass tries here, I mean real honest to God effort.

So many people think that 'compassion' will somehow undo the laziness that infects these people. It won't. Give a lazy bum a dollar, and that dollar will serve no purpose, no matter how much 'compassion' you gave it with.

"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he can eat for a lifetime." or somesuch.

Fat people fuck up society. And people like you condone that. That's fucked up. Disagreeing with you does not make me Hitler, or mean that I want to kill these people. What it means is that I want people like you to wake up and smell the Java -- it's BAD NEWS to be obese, and that hurts society, so fuck the compassion, impart common sense into the masses.

As long as there are non-obese people condoning the behaviour of the obese, people will find excuses to remain lazy and unhealthy. And that's not compassion, that's fucked up.

[Anubis Nine]

If I'll get a bit off topic. It kills me inside that when you don't agree with what someone's saying you can compare them to Hitler in this society. Sometimes I wonder if other cultures that may not have had a part in the second world war have someone to compare their opponants to.

Being disgustingly fat, and it's a term I find appropriate, has less to do with weight and mass in general. There are people I've seen that look like five of me put together, and I'm no pixie. It's *hard* to lose that fat, but for them better.

I have a problem when people find reasons to tip toe around things like being exceedingly obese and that sort of behavior to a problem. That doesn't help anyone, if of course you want to help someone. It gives them reasons to just NOT change anything in their routine.

(There's a line between telling someone they're fat and being down right cruelthough. I don't believe in crossing that, so don't accuse me of it.)

[Invictus]

So many people think that 'compassion' will somehow undo the laziness that infects these people. It won't. Give a lazy bum a dollar, and that dollar will serve no purpose, no matter how much 'compassion' you gave it with.

Quoted for truthfulness. Fundamentally, what's wrong with the perpetually obese/druggies/bums/etc. is that they simply don't care enough to change their self-destructive behaviour. Compassion is wasted on them, because they DON'T CARE. In some twisted way, they enjoy wallowing in their base condition of choice. That's what bothers me the most.

[4letterwords]

While I agree with that, there's a big difference between being honest and being rude. I'm not saying be compassionate to those who won't try, but don't be rude/mean to those who are trying.

[NERD]

If I'll get a bit off topic. It kills me inside that when you don't agree with what someone's saying you can compare them to Hitler in this society. Sometimes I wonder if other cultures that may not have had a part in the second world war have someone to compare their opponants to.

Being disgustingly fat, and it's a term I find appropriate, has less to do with weight and mass in general. There are people I've seen that look like five of me put together, and I'm no pixie. It's *hard* to lose that fat, but for them better.

I have a problem when people find reasons to tip toe around things like being exceedingly obese and that sort of behavior to a problem. That doesn't help anyone, if of course you want to help someone. It gives them reasons to just NOT change anything in their routine.

(There's a line between telling someone they're fat and being down right cruelthough. I don't believe in crossing that, so don't accuse me of it.)

I'm not tiptoeing around the problem. There exists disgustingly fat people. I just don't think it's right to think they are lower than us because of that. In the same token, I do not think socially non-functioning people should be looked down upon because of their lack of contribution to the society. Maybe they are a lost cause, may be, but let them be.

If you want to change them, calling them fat and lazy and weak won't help much. Suggest a better answer and I'll take whatever there is.

Oh, and for Hitler- he's just the most extreme fascist ever because he didn't tolerate whatever that didn't tickle his fancy. Ever read Mein Kampf? He was a hypocrit who didn't like too many people. He was not an agreeable person, hated many people who he thought was weak and degenerate, and sent them to death.

There's been many cases of genocide like that- would you feel better if I used the term Hutus instead of Hitler?

[Anubis Nine]

I'd feel more comfortable if you used the term 'intolerant'. Because that's what it is. And Hutus is not a term. It was a group of people in Rwanda.

[Psychochink]

Genetics can be a factor. Me, I've got an endomorphic body shape inherited from my father, who's a pretty big guy. It sucks hardcore for all sorts of reasons. On the other hand, I choose to work with what I've got instead of whining about it. My workout partner is an ectomorph, and so has no problem whatsoever looking nice and trim. On the other hand, we started lifting at the same time, with the same weight (six months ago) and I am now benching 31lbs more than he is because I put on muscle easier (hey, when you're as weak as we were when we started, it's a lot).

How do we motivate each other? He calls me a fat bastard and I call him a pussy. Seriously, if you're not willing to be actually dissatisfied with your body, you won't change it. Stop worrying about other people being mean to you, and start being mean to yourself. Stop making excuses for your body. Me, my eating habits are still not that great, and I've got more fat around the gut than I'd like. But I don't blame that on anybody other than myself. Yes, I put on fat easier, I can live with that because I have to and you know what? I'm probably not going to change my eating habits that much. I will, however, be decreasing my rest time between sets and will do more low intensity cardio, because I've decided I want to slow down the bulking and start slowly cutting for a while (want to make exercise easy? Do what I do, set up your treadmill in front of the TV and watch something. Or hell, if you're doing low intensity stuff, up the incline, slow down the speed and play the PS2 - you'd be amazed how much time you can spend without realising it).

Stop making excuses. I don't have time to eat during the day either. So I make a whole crapload of protein shake on the weekend, bottle it and fridge it at work. Low fat, high protein, medium carb and it tastes good because I shove stuff in there that I like. It's cheaper, too. Hey, I'm known as the guy in the office who drinks that "weird pink crap" (I use strawberry protein powder), but who cares. Dinners your issue? Cook a big pot of stew on the weekend, or make a crapload of pasta sauce and fridge/freeze it. I made a good 2 litres of pasta sauce yesterday, and since I live by myself, that could feed me all week (if I wanted to eat the same thing for dinner every night). Scale up accordingly.

Take a 2 litre bottle full of water with you to work, have it sitting near you and empty it by the end of the day. No effort required.

Go here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/venuto2.htm for a more scientific analysis on fat loss techniques. If you're out of shape, please don't do HIIT, you'll just screw yourself up.

[Invictus]

I'm not tiptoeing around the problem. There exists disgustingly fat people. I just don't think it's right to think they are lower than us because of that. In the same token, I do not think socially non-functioning people should be looked down upon because of their lack of contribution to the society. Maybe they are a lost cause, may be, but let them be.

I have nothing but sympathy for those who cannot contribute to society. I have nothing but disdain for those who will not contribute to society.

No one is lower because of physical circumstances. However, plenty of folks can lower themselves by virtue of their attitudes.

EDIT: Hearken unto Psychochink. He speaketh truth.

[Kustom]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with everything PLF say, but your calculation based on social welfare sounds a bit lame. Are you saying that if tomorrow a study came out showing that smokers cost more to social security than non-smokers, you would flat-out quit smoking? I kind of doubt it...

People shouldn't whine about being fat unless they have tried everything to get out of this situation first. People who make some efforts, like H2, even small ones like quitting soda should be encouraged IMO, not barked upon. But if someone really wants to be fat, sure, it costs more to the social security system, but the proper way to deal with it is to tax unhealthy foods or trash the welfare system (which, PLF, I suspect has your preference). In a free society people can choose to be fat. There are tons of people who cost social security money. People who drive all day are more prone to have car accidents than people who work at home. Skate-boarders get a hell of a lot of stupid injuries and it isn't even reflected in any insurance policy they pay. How about parents who decide to have a disabled kid when they could abort? Maybe you think those should be banned too, but life would be pretty boring if everything that has a chance of burdenning social security a bit was frown upon. How about people looking down on you for drinking beer because alcohol could clog your arteries, and having a heart attack would burden social security?

Besides, there is also the odd chance that someone could be genetically fat, and so looking down on him without knowing his background would be silly. He might have tried everything without results.

I don't believe non-suicidal people aim at being sick or injured. A lot of people try to delude themselves into thinking that the health problems will remain minor, that they'll quit smoking before it's too late, etc. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it human? Of course. Few people are not guilty of self-delusion.

One last thing, PLF, I don't think you have any problems with lacking self-confidence. Perhaps you did in your youth and overcame it, more power to you. I have absolutely no shortage of self-confidence myself, so I used to be pissed to no end at people who couldn't stand for themselves or act decisively... But after hanging around many such people, and living with one, I came to reckon that self-confidence is indeed not something to take for granted. It's usually something you build during your childhood (being the fat kid doesn't help), and it's pretty hard to acquire once you're an adult.
I'm sure that if you were fat, you would take all the appropriate steps in no time, think positively, discipline yourself, etc, just as you would if you decided to quit smoking. But some people are far less confident about their ability to achieve, and it takes them much more work to take even basic initiatives. Think of all the Japanese you know that are unable to take even simple steps to better their lives. I know how frustrating it is to watch, but do you think it means that they were born half the man you are, or that if you were in their shoes, your decision-making skills would be fucked up too?

[Psychochink]

You know, people say the word "intolerant" like it's a bad thing. Frankly, what's wrong with a little intolerance when it comes to changing things in your society that need to be changed.

I'm intolerant of racists, does that make me a bad person? Guess what, I'm intolerant of smokers, too. Not to the extent that I'm going to get in their face, but I damn sure don't want to see a smoker on the lung transplant list, they'll just waste it.

When I'm at the gym and I see a very obese person, I have nothing but support for them, because they've not only decided that they don't like the way they are, they're doing something about it. I've got a couple of mates who are overweight and don't really care - not my choice, but if they're happy, fine. But don't be overweight, complain about it and then do nothing about it. That's what annoys me.

[NERD]

I'd feel more comfortable if you used the term 'intolerant'. Because that's what it is. And Hutus is not a term. It was a group of people in Rwanda.

Duly noted. Hutus are still here by the way. Oh, and Hitler was a person too!

I have nothing but sympathy for those who cannot contribute to society. I have nothing but disdain for those who will not contribute to society.

No one is lower because of physical circumstances. However, plenty of folks can lower themselves by virtue of their attitudes.


But they are still part of the society, and while their contribution to the society may be minimal, they still contribute by just being there. Which is not suprising when dead people seem to be one of the voting population.

Overall, it's funny to think in terms of contribution to society, as most organisms on Earth could even bother with the presence of others in the same species, unless it involves sex or food, perhaps both. People who don't contribute to society has been there since civilization started, and what you think about them is fine- just let them be. They will be there for quite awhile.

All in all, I'm just making conversation here, and I just don't mind having a great rebuttal to what others think. It's like the debate club, same down to the fact that our incessant debate will result in nothing, except our perceptions altering slightly!

And I am not fat, but average. No six packs here, I don't work out that often, and eat junk foods whenever I don't have the time to cook. Between drawing sketches, reading two books a week on average, studying logics, and doing Japanese exercises, not to mention the time spent for personal entertainment/sleep, I may not have enough time for motivating myself. So just shoot me.

[erbiumfiber]

For a lot of morbidly obese people, overeating is a form of mental illness. My father, until quite recently, was morbidly obese my entire life. He had a stroke that left him paralyzed on his right side and now lives in assisted living, where he needs help for EVERYTHING (except eating...).

My father was the child of two alcoholic parents and was tremendously psychologically abused (not something he will even talk about). He lost weight to enter the Marines, served his country in the Korean War (in the front) and was a highly successful electrical engineer.

But he could not get past this mental illness. He had vowed never to be an alcoholic like his parents (I never even saw him tipsy, let alone drunk). Food was like a drug/alcohol to him. It was really sad and eventually was one of the things that cost him his marriage after 28 years.

Now he's paying the price as he pays the entire cost of assisted living (although if his money ever runs out, it's going to be me...)

So, I try not to look down on fat people, smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics (including many family members), homeless, because I've never walked a mile in their shoes. There but for the grace of God go I...I have had my own battles with depression, which can lead to obesity.

As for myself, when I was a kid, I was fat. I went to Weight Watchers (with my father) and lost 20 lbs back in the fifth grade and have never been fat again. But I watched my brother and sister eat the same as I and never gain an ounce (they are also thin adults). I struggle to remain slender and it is truly a struggle, but I do it. But it takes tremendous willpower (it is very easy for me to gain) and there ARE a lot of people who are relatively thin with no effort. Anyway, I seem to be straying off my original point which is basically that I try not to look down on anyone, I just hope that he/she gets the help that is so desperately needed.

[h2orowe]

All right, I was wrong PLF didn't call me worthless, but he had the same "Quite frankly, fat people sicken me." tone the whole time though. I was a little pissed about it because I did nothing to provoke him. You can disagree with me Pierrot, but I don't fucking care, I did nothing to even provoke the uneeded bash on myself that you gave me.
Dude, honestly... I don't care if I'm fat, yes I wanna lose weight, but I mean, I'm not going up to people asking for their sympathy... and me calling myself a fat kid is a joke..... Ok? It's not like I'm saying OMFG IM SO DESPERATE FOR ACCEPTANCE I MUST GO ON TO A SMALL ONLINE FORUM AND SAY IM THE FAT KID SO I CAN MAKE FRIENDS THAT ILL NEVER MEET :O Wow, despite my time I spend on here (most of the day) I have friends :O Oh Noez! The fat kid has friends? Who would've thought? I thought he'd be looking for sympathy and be to busy to have friends.... For the past 2 or 3 weekends I've gone to my friends house, but this weekend I couldn't because I got a rash from a cheap ass deoderant (cuz I'm too poor to afford Old Spice at the moment) so I couldn't go (and it really sucked, cuz I was supposed to hang out with some girls from summer school at a festival :\ )
PLF you can say I'm begging for sympathy, but honestly you are wrong, I'm not; and to say fat people are leeching off society's teet, is an insult to every single NFL, NCAA, and High school lineman football player out there. We work our asses as hard as the skinny people on the team. We lift weights, we run our asses off, but we eat more so we can protect the skinny people from getting "cracked".
I don't care if I get made fun of for being fat, it's all in good jest, it's okay. I make fun of myself/other fat people too (as long as they don't mind) but it's not okay to discriminate on people just because of their weight. I hate it when I see people do that, because I know if I try, I'll be rejected too.
Maybe the reason I take abuse like this easily, is because I honestly don't like to fight, I fight alot, but I don't like to. So, if I let people make fun of me, and not get all "butt hurt" and take it offensively, than I won't either provoke more verbal abuse, or get in a fight.
I don't use my fatness to prevent me from doing anything. (I used to use asthma as an excuse not to run miles in P.E. but I don't anymore; football taught me a valuable lesson in work-ethic and self-pride). Sure, I might seem as though I have low self-confidence on the boards, but I'm quite proud of myself in certain aspects. The fact that I've kept my cool in the current living situation I'm in, fighting for what I believe in, and being an overall kind person, I think I do ok.
Now, I honestly forgot where I was going with this.
Fat people who are funny, and do their work=good
Fat people who are jackasses but still do their work=meh
Fat people who whine and live in a bathtun=leech on society
I'm 5'9 236 (257 or so at the start of summer; see what cutting sodas out of a daily routine can do? Pretty soon I'll stop for good) but I don't use my fat as an excuse to prohibit myself from doing anything.
I could honestly go on about how I don't use the fat card if you want, but I don't really feel I have to tell more :\ PLF if you need to PM me and I'll explain more.

And PLF, to say smokers are better than fat people is pretty lame, too.
Smoking=Addictive
Food=Addictive to some people
and yes, like I said, the fat whiny people are bad. The ones who honestly like to eat, and don't really care, but are still beneficial to society, are still the same as smokers.

Sorry, if this thing has holes in it, I'm not really at my fullest right now (EXCUSE LOLZ)

[NERD]

....okay, though I may not be the best person to say this, as I've been a part of this, we all need a time out, and chill out....

[PopCulturePooka]

I agree primarily with PLF's annoyance with fat people that expect the rest of society to prop them up/pay for them. Which is also why some smokers annoy me.

Sure, be fat and proud if you want. I don't care.

But don't bitch when you should pay for two plane seats, if you can't really fit into one. Its not FAIR on another passenger to have to sit uncomfortably next to you. Sucks that you gotta pay double, but pony it up and look at why you are.

Don't piss and moan when you have to pay higher insurance or private health cover costs. Being large IS a health risk, and its plum not fair that a healthy normal weight person should be expected to pay the same as someone who is in a danger group.

For the love of god, don't expect food service companies to remove items from their menu or be accountable for your poor diet and lifestyle choices either. Yes, its tragic that MCDonalds super size meals made you big. Guess what? Don't eat them. Don't expect me to not have the choice of eating that or tie up my tax payers money and the courts time.

I don't care that you are fat. Nor do I care if you smoke.

I do care when you're poor choices or lifestyles start affecting my choices, lifestyle or hip pocket.

I have every right to be annoyed by that.

[Masa the Masta]

I want to gain weight. :x It's one thing to be fat and to be picked on. You at least have the mass to fight back. I used to be picked on when I was short and skinny, and I lacked the mass or the physical strength to fight back.

I've bettered myself, but I think I can do better. :o I still watch what I eat though. I like subway and quiznos, but maybe once a month or so, I'll go out and have me a burger, nothing wrong with that. I exercise 3-4 times a week, and I'd estimate I'd burn about 400 calories or so with each workout, so I think I'm doing okay. ;)

I need to bench more though, I suck.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I sincerely doubt you're burning 400 calories/workout unless you're working out with some hefty cardio for over an hour every time. Which is doubtful. Cardio really doesn't burn that many calories, but the benefits of a workout extend well beyond the time working out (namely in altering your metabolism). Also bear in mind that you're probably young, which means you've got a nice metabolism which will go to shit right when you need it (at the point of consuming too much beer).

Best o' luck with that.

[DarkFire168]

I'm 5'9 236

Congratulations, you weigh 44 lbs less than I do! See, you're not fat, you're chunky.

[h2orowe]

Hahaha, really, they consider that obesity, but I wasn't even near the fattest kid on the football team either (we had like a 6'0 freshman, maybe 6'1, and he was 290!!!).
I don't wanna lose weight and be skinny, I just wanna go back to 180 or so. I was 180 in 7th, 175 in 8th, and than 220 after I moved, and 240 in 9th grade, than 257 or so for this summer, and when I stopped snacking, and drinking alot of sodas, I lost like 20 lbs pretty fast :\ I hardly excercised.
I gained alot of weight once I moved cuz I got all deppressed and stuff, I had lived in my old city for 9 years, and than we suddenly move with like 1 weeks notice, and the final days I had to stay with my cousin, because my mom hates me doing work -.- so, yeah. Plus I moved into a shitty situation, where my family is pretty much trapped.

[ruaidhri]

You know what really pisses me off? It’s how so many people can be cruel for no reason other than to make themselves feel good. Why do people find it necessary to put others down? Do they constantly need to assure themselves that they’re better than that other person? Does hurting another person make them proud of their own accomplishments?

I asked the question “Why are we overweight?” because its causes needs to be discussed and understood before we as individuals and as a society can improve our own health and that of society as a whole. I don’t believe anybody really wants to be overweight. Not only is extra weight unhealthy, it doesn’t feel good to carry extra pounds on your body. I’m sure it also doesn’t feel good to be ridiculed and labeled as lazy or stupid or ugly. So, why are so many people overweight? Before we can solve a problem we have to understand its cause.

A simple answer for people that don’t see any further than their nose is “they eat too much” or “they don’t exercise enough.” Ok, that’s true, people do eat too much and people don’t exercise enough. Why? What causes them to eat more calories than they burn? What causes them to avoid exercise? What can they do and what can society do to correct the problem? Remember the problem is not limited to the overweight. It affects everyone because it affects the health of the nation. Overweight people are sick more often. They are more subject to catastrophic health issues such as diabetes, cancer, heart problem, bad joints, strokes and a host of other associated ailments. There is a cost associated with those problems and we all pay the bill whether we like it or not.

Let’s get over the name calling and discuss causes and solutions. Why are so many people overweight?

When I was a boy, fathers worked outside and mothers inside the home. If both parents worked it was a choice, not a necessity. The mother made breakfast, lunch and dinner. We sat down at a table as a family for our meals. We shared the food and when it was gone it was gone. We didn’t overeat because there wasn’t enough food on the table to overeat. Now, this might sound sexist and that certainly is not my intent. I’m just stating the way it was.

Today, it often takes salaries from both parents to make a livable family income. When the parents come home from work the job doesn’t end as they walk away from their workplace. The stress remains and they are often just too damn tired to cook anything. Fast food is a quick and cheap alternative. They can eat in front of the TV, relax and mentally prepare themselves for another day at work.

The problem is:

The type of food we eat is too high in fat, sugars and carbohydrates.
We miss meals and get overly hungry eating too much at a single sitting.
We eat when we are not hungry.
We collapse in front of the TV and working the remote control is our only exercise.
We eat because we are bored, sad, happy, hurt, pissed or believe we need a reward.


Now, what’s the solution? Can we police every person to see that they eat the right type of food? Can we force people to eat more frequently and consume smaller portions? Can we stop people from eating when they are not hungry? Can we pull people up off their butts and push them into exercise? Is there any way we can convince people that if hunger is not the problem then food is not the solution?

So, if the answers to the above questions are “No!”, then is hurting or embarrassing them the answer? Is that going to produce any better results? Or, is it just going to push their hand further into that bag of potato chips?

Remember, we are all paying for the health problems of the overweight. Instead of calling them names we should be looking for viable solutions. In my first post I agreed with Cnagy’s indictment of McDonalds (as a representative of the fast food industry). I explained that McDonalds is a product of our capitalistic economy where the purpose is to grow and to above all increase sales and income. The employees of McDonalds from the top to the bottom are doing exactly what’s expected. They are creating desires and responding to their customer’s needs so long as those needs produce greater sales and earnings. Except where it impacts their bottom line, they are not overly concerned about the health of their customers.

The fast food industry advertises to get you to eat more of their product. Their foods contain harmful quantities of fats, carbohydrates and sugars to make them taste better so we eat more. Remember the ad “I’ll bet you can’t eat just one?”. Have you noticed how big restaurant servings are today? What’s amazing is how many people actually clean their plates. Heck, if I go out to a restaurant, I have leftovers for lunch for three or four days. Aren’t those large portions encouraging us to eat too much?

But, of course, everyone could do as I do and leave the food on the plate uneaten or take it home for later. The problem is, most people don’t; instead, they eat every last bite. So, am I suggesting we sue the food industry? No, of course not! That hasn’t stopped the cigarette manufacturers from producing their products and it won’t stop the McDonalds of the world from producing theirs. We all have the ability to look down at our guts and say, “Damn, I have to lose weight!” I believe we are ultimately responsible for our own destiny.

So, again, what’s the solution? If we don’t sue the industry we could at least regulate more carefully what they put into our foods. We could regulate how they advertise. We could educate people more about the health risks of being overweight, even by a small amount. Our schools, employers and local governments could create more opportunities for exercise. We could be proactive in our fight against fat.

The one thing we don’t need is to be cruel to anyone.

What are your solutions for society as a whole and for individuals. I already read several good suggestions like exercising, drinking a lot of water and removing soda and other sweetened beverages from our diets. What other responsible and unhateful suggestions do you have?

[Pfalzer]

wow .... im only 6'11" and 170-75 lol wow is all i cna say

[Jay]

I call shenanigans.

[Balain]

Well to simplify it does come down to if you eat more calories than you use you gain wieght. I think that's been said before already. There's more to it than that like if you have a balanced diet and genetics. Some people can lose weight easier than others. Some people it's very hard to keep the shape they want. If you have a balanced diet and exersice

Lately I've really been trying to lose wirght. My doctor wants me to lose some but be more healthy. I went and saw a cardiologist for the first time he said I should lose 100 lbs. It's not easy. It's a stuggle for me. I loike food and my job conists of me sitting on my butt for 8 hours pretty much. But I'm slowly getting there.

I think schools can be a fact for kids. Has anyone seen or heard of Jamie's School Dinner's?

Jamie's School Dinners (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/J/jamies_school_dinners/)

[ruaidhri]

Balain, you are correct. Losing weight is not easy. It takes a lot of fun out of life because we are used to letting food be our crutch. Losing weight is also not quick. It should be considering how much will power we need to not overeat and to exercise. But, the weight didn't come on overnight and it won't go off overnight. I started Weight Watchers last January 29th. I Weighed 236 pounds. Today, I weigh 176. I've lost 60 pounds so far. My Weight Watchers goal is 160 pounds. I want to drop an added 5 or 10 pounds to 150 to 155 pounds. It's not easy but this time I believe I understand what it takes to lose weight and to keep it off.

One thing is true. We need support. Weight Watchers provides just that with people like me that are committed to "getting thin". I need that support and so do most people. It's harder when you go it alone.

I also exercise. I just got back from an hour at the Gym. Shortly, I'll take my dog out for a three-mile walk.

Don't stop working on your weight. It's your life and believe me I'm a lot happier 60 pounds lighter and I'm very satisfied eating less.

[mediocre]

We are fat because we either lack the knowledge of proper nutrition or have apathy in regards to it.
'Convience foods' are just loaded with excess fats and sugars and are 'easy'.
We would rather relieve stress by sitting down in front of a tv with a beer after work than going to the gym and inflicting serious pain to the barbells.



I'm one of those people who say losing weight is easy. Of course, alot of this stems from my fraternity days in college where you got motivated to not only get in shape but to get ripped. Of course there was a built-in support system to develop proper techniques and motivation to achieve a goal in this type of setting. If I want to drop 2-3% bodyfat, I jsut do it. If I want to add a few lbs of muscle, I just do it. However, I have that mentality of such action that I may not have had 7-10 years ago.

I've lost weight and watched people lose weight. It is a lifestyle change. Most people are rather shocked if they take an inventory of their average day of intake and expenditure. Cutting out 'cheap' sources of sugar is one of the easiest ways to start losing weight.

It isn't about eating less food, it is about eating the right food. Combined with simple (or intensive) workouts, and results will come.


I sincerely doubt you're burning 400 calories/workout unless you're working out with some hefty cardio for over an hour every time. Which is doubtful. Cardio really doesn't burn that many calories


Well, this isn't exactly true. Not knowing someone's weight may differ the veracity of this statement. Also, the type, duration, and intensity of his workout may affect it as well.


Currently I do cardio (elliptical) three times a week in my current regimen, at 6' and 210ish, I push 400 calories easily within 30minutes. Of course, I don't go to the gym to break a light sweat.

I would hasten to say, for any man of relative size (the sites below claim 170lb to be average) that doing 1hour of cardio exercise one could hit 400cal burned.



http://k2.kirtland.cc.mi.us/~balbachl/calorie.htm
http://exercise.about.com/cs/cardioworkouts/a/burn300calories.htm
http://www.coolnurse.com/calories_burned.htm

[ruaidhri]

Mediocre, you are correct for the most part. It is mostly about eating the correct foods but it's also about the amount you eat and how frequently you eat. Some foods you can eat more; some, less. Cheap sugars (sodas) are indeed the worst. Exercise is important but not critical to losing weight.

I am blessed in that I have a high metabolism. I gained weight because I liked 2nd and 3rd helpings and I liked to drink beer and wiskey. Both my wife and I joined Weight Watchers at the same time. Losing weight is difficult for my wife. She really works at it both in food intake and exercise. I didn't even start to exercise until I had already lost over 50 pounds. Basically, all I did was stop drinking beer and wiskey and eat no more than what was on my first plate. I lost the weight without exercising. Now, I have begun to exercise because it makes me feel better. I also am impatient to lose the rest of the weight I want to lose.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Cutting beer out of my diet would cut about 5-15 kilos off my waistline (I have no idea how much fat is stored down there). Not happening though.

And mediocre, at 187cm (6'2) and 90~91 kilos (~200 lbs) I am certainly not tiny myself, but even me going to the gym, by all the charts, etc. they have lying around, I'd have to work out at the peak heartrate thingie for around an hour and a half to burn 400 calories.

[CNagy]

It really depends on the size of the person. The last time I was doing a cardio workout phase (I alternate between weight lifting and cardio) I was 290 lbs. At that weight, it was relatively easy (burned like hell but was doable) to burn 600-800 calories in an hour or so on the eliptical machine or the treadmill on an incline, but that was constant intense cardio, and technically beyond the safe cardio level for a guy my age.

[JustTooCrazy]

I'd have to work out at the peak heartrate thingie for around an hour and a half to burn 400 calories.
Well you must not be doing something correctly.

My dad who is 179lbs and in the 40's for age does spinning(stationary cycling) for an hour. He uses a heart rate monitor(its a watch with a strap that goes around the chest) and it calculates that he burns around 850 calories on average for an hour. He has burned over 1000 calories for the hour on occasion.

[Pierrot le Fou]

You'd have to have your heart rate at peak levels, and have it hang there for an hour to achieve that kind of effect, and that doesn't seem that feasible to me. It's unsafe to work your heart too hard for a long period of time, and being on a constant incline or the cycling equivalent on a machine is going to take your heart rate up in the first 5 minutes or so, and slowly increase it past that to the point where it ain't exactly safe.

I go to a gym with trainers who are there to help design workouts that are safe and effective, all licensed, I seriously doubt that I'm doing something wrong unless pushing my heart past the 'safe zone' for my age is the 'right' thing to do.

[KKF]

Quoted for truthfulness. Fundamentally, what's wrong with the perpetually obese/druggies/bums/etc. is that they simply don't care enough to change their self-destructive behaviour. Compassion is wasted on them, because they DON'T CARE. In some twisted way, they enjoy wallowing in their base condition of choice. That's what bothers me the most.

Quoted for arrogrance, self rightneous, and ignorance. :rolleyes:

If a loved one of yours suddenly became one of those three you mentioned. You wouldn't have any compassion for them? Compassion is never waisted on anyone, either on the person giving to others or the person receiving it. People sometimes need help to get out of the situations they are in, also giving back never hurt anyone. Its part of being HUMAN, you know feeling sorry for those in need. Also part of being moral and not amoral. Go read "The Stranger," by Camus, and see what type of person you are describing.

[JustTooCrazy]

You'd have to have your heart rate at peak levels, and have it hang there for an hour to achieve that kind of effect, and that doesn't seem that feasible to me. It's unsafe to work your heart too hard for a long period of time, and being on a constant incline or the cycling equivalent on a machine is going to take your heart rate up in the first 5 minutes or so, and slowly increase it past that to the point where it ain't exactly safe.

Yea its actually perfectly feasable since he does this 3 times a week and its not at max heart rate for the whole time, its probably at an average of 75% - 85%.

I burn at least 500 calories a day just from running on cross country. 500 is probably underestimated 500 is probably burned on an easy day.

[KKF]

Yea its actually perfectly feasable since he does this 3 times a week. I burn at least 500 calories a day just from running on cross country. 500 is probably underestimated 500 is probably burned on an easy day.

Boy do I remember the days of cross country, now thats a sport that takes a lot of mental maturaity and drive. And yeah you can burn that many calories in a day, it really matters your body type and how active you are.

[JustTooCrazy]

Yea, i think PLF seems to underestimate his ability to work. Dude, your 25 you shouldnt have a problem having your heart work at a high rate.

[sakana]

I'm not what you would call fat.

I'm about 6 feet 1 inch tall and a little less than 150 pounds. I dont really work out except during wrestling season where everyday I work out for like 2 and a half hours of non stop work.
Our coach is a little crazy and sometime it seems like the whole time we have endurance training (or really just doning a bunch of running back and fourth, dropping up and down and pretty much an all cardio workout). I'm too cheap to get fast food too often and I'm faily strong for my weight. I never really have to work to stay skinny but I really should gain more weight (well muscle weight) if I dont want to get killed in wrestling.

I'm pretty sure I have a fast metabolism too because I eat a lot and never gain weight, even when I dont exercise. :p

[CNagy]

You'd have to have your heart rate at peak levels, and have it hang there for an hour to achieve that kind of effect, and that doesn't seem that feasible to me. It's unsafe to work your heart too hard for a long period of time, and being on a constant incline or the cycling equivalent on a machine is going to take your heart rate up in the first 5 minutes or so, and slowly increase it past that to the point where it ain't exactly safe.

Yea, i think PLF seems to underestimate his ability to work. Dude, your 25 you shouldnt have a problem having your heart work at a high rate.

The safe heart rate is on the safe side; you can generally stick to that area and get results without risking harm. For me, I have a very low resting heart rate and a very high active heart rate-- my "cardio safe zone" is 155, but doing exercise usually jumps my heart rate to 175 and then increases to about 190, though I've gotten as high as 198. I don't push myself that hard anymore, but yeah, those recommended heart rates are well into the safe zone.

[BluZytrix]

First, I do want to put out there that I'm 6'1'' and 280.

I believe that a great shift in societal thinking would come from better educated parents. Many of the habits about food choice and eating come from childhood. If you take most kids from age 15 on down, they have a hard enough time being correct with things like morlas, let alone food. I don't ever feel there was a time that my parents sat me down and said "Hey, you are fat and if you want to change this, you must do this and that. We are here to help you and will show you how to do it." That would sound like parenting to me. I was really touched by that story of someone in this thread a while back who said their parents helped them loose weight in the 5th grade. That sounds like good parenting. If we take the fact that parents really don't educate their kids about proper food choice and combine it with the shit they serve at schools currently, then it all makes sense. We have set up the perfect way to make fat people, later destined to get hooked on MacDonalds. Take an uneducated kid and dump him into lunch time at school with the following choices: chicken poppers, pizza, cheese fries, taco bell(yes, some schools acutally serve that), salad and a balanced meal of meat rice and veggies. Which would they choose? I would not blame them in the least, but this is ridiculous. If we would like to see a difference as a society, I would at least start looking at ways of cleaning out the shit they call food at our schools, the breeding grounds for tomorrow's fat people. Perhaps an idea would be to put a lot better regulation on what is allowed in schools. I have heard of some schools turning off their soda machines all day until classes are out. That is a great step in the right direction but more is needed.

After living in Japan for a mere two weeks, small things are jumping out at me as to why I see less overweight people. An easy example would be vending machines. Not only do you have maybe 3 choices of soda, you usually have more choices for tea and other beverages that are a far better alternative to soda. I have found that it is really easy to choose green tea or something not soda when there are so many other options besides the standard American vending machine's 10 sodas and water. I will also go stick my neck out and say that from what I've read lunch at schools in Japan are more of what we should be looking for. Usually they are much more balanced meals and don't have as much choice in terms of the crap you can get like American lunches. Perhpas anyone who has had a chance to work or see these parts of Japan's schools could comment.

The bottom line is that habits learned early on about eating will stay with people for a long time. Creating good eating habits early on makes it easier for those kids when they grow up.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Yes, I know that I'm 25, and the heart rate that I can raise to is reasonably high before it gets dangerous. But still, I don't like going far above 150. If I hit 160, I slow down because that's just not a good idea to push, regardless of how seemingly healthy you are. An active heart rate will burn calories, and I don't want to die to lose an extra 50 calories/hour.

[JustTooCrazy]

Yes, I know that I'm 25, and the heart rate that I can raise to is reasonably high before it gets dangerous. But still, I don't like going far above 150. If I hit 160, I slow down because that's just not a good idea to push, regardless of how seemingly healthy you are. An active heart rate will burn calories, and I don't want to die to lose an extra 50 calories/hour.
going above 160 isn't going to shorten your life span. its more probable for it to increase your lifespan rather then decrease it.

whats your resting heart rate?(take your pulse from your neck for 30 seconds then multiple by two)

[Pierrot le Fou]

68.

And I'm not worried about the long-term effects of excercising (as what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, where muscles are concerned), I'm worried about my heart exploding on an excercise bike.

[JustTooCrazy]

I don't your heart is going to explode on an exercise bike... i mean unless you have heart conditions.

I was wondering about the heart rate just to see if it maybe abnormal or something.

[Anubis Nine]

Um, I will state from personal experience that having you heart explode, or going into a kind of cardiac arrest IS possible. It happened to me about two years ago.

I have a chronic hyperactive thyroid. It comes and goes. Two years ago I was climbing up a hill at the gravel yard to ride down it again on my sled. When I got to the top of the hill I collapsed. My father (A former ambulence aid) took my heart beat at the time and was amazed to find that it was beating so fast it was overlapping itself to push a hard rush of blood around 15 beats per minute. As it slowed down to a rate we could count at (I was conscious the whole time but I couldn't stand) It was at 195. By the time we got to the hospital. Which took 45 minutes, it had gone down to 178 on record by the doctor there.

It *is* possible and very not fun.

[Pierrot le Fou]

There are plenty of reasons not to push it or risk it. Perfectly healthy athletes die every year from a heart condition that comes seemingly out of nowhere. Despite my otherwise good health, and relatively low blood pressure, there is a history of heart conditions on one side of my family, and while I may not exhibit any symptoms, it just seems stupid to push the limits when I can achieve results without the risk.

[h2orowe]

Woo! Something good actually came up, now I have the chance to walk home. These 2 girls I know, they walk home now, and even though I'm 15 and it's only 2 miles away... my mom's too god damn paranoid to let me walk anywhere by myself. Plus, I remembered that I have an excersize bike here somewhere!
Woo! Let's see if I can go back to the 100s! Or at least shallow 200's. If, let's round this up, I'm 240, how long do you think it'd take me to drop down to 200 if I do a relaxed exerscise routine? I'm gonna look into diets, or maybe go to the doctors but I'm just wondering.
2 miles a day, plus maybe a mile on the bike.

[Invictus]

If a loved one of yours suddenly became one of those three you mentioned. You wouldn't have any compassion for them?

I strongly advise you to reread my comments. I said compassion was wasted on such folks. Did I say I would have no compassion? Not at all. It's human nature to do things against our better judgment, after all. :D

Compassion is never waisted on anyone, either on the person giving to others or the person receiving it. People sometimes need help to get out of the situations they are in, also giving back never hurt anyone.

God helps those who help themselves. Fundamentally, someone has to *want* to be helped in order for help to do any good. Some people, sadly, don't want to be helped (see above point about doing things against our better judgment).

[CNagy]

Woo! Something good actually came up, now I have the chance to walk home. These 2 girls I know, they walk home now, and even though I'm 15 and it's only 2 miles away... my mom's too god damn paranoid to let me walk anywhere by myself. Plus, I remembered that I have an excersize bike here somewhere!
Woo! Let's see if I can go back to the 100s! Or at least shallow 200's. If, let's round this up, I'm 240, how long do you think it'd take me to drop down to 200 if I do a relaxed exerscise routine? I'm gonna look into diets, or maybe go to the doctors but I'm just wondering.
2 miles a day, plus maybe a mile on the bike.

The slower that you lose it, the more permanent the loss will be. Don't worry about how long it will take, just add this exercise into your life and wait for the results. I recommend not even looking at a scale for the first month, either.

[Trump]

If you want to improve, you need to push yourself. Your goals should dicate how you exercise. There are two reasons to do cardio, to simply burn calories and to exercise your heart. If you only push your heart rate to ~150ish and never go above that, I'd say you are mostly just burning calories. If that is what you are going for, great. On the other hand I push myself. I'll run for a while to sustain the heartrate and then kick it up a notch to really get in a good workout (probably closer to 170ish). If I feel like it is getting too hard at that point, I slow down and rest and then run a little more.

I know it works, I can run 5x longer and at least 25% faster than I could a year ago.

Also, your "max" heartrate varies by what chart you look at. For 25 year olds, I see the max "safe" cardio building pace vary from 150 to 180.

[ruaidhri]

H2orowe, it’s absolutely spectacular that this thread has encouraged you to take the step to actively lose weight. You can do it and at your age it shouldn’t be too hard. I do have several suggestions.

Check with your school and see if there is any group of students that could join together in their quest to lose weight. Losing weight as a group establishes accountability to the group and actually helps you to stay on track. It also confirms that you are not alone and that other students share the same problems. And, the synergy of working together offers many insights into better eating and living habits.

Eat frequently. That sounds counterproductive but it actually helps you to lose weight. I’ve read that eating six small meals each day is best. If you can’t do that make sure that you eat something for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Pick healthy foods, including fruit and vegetables and limit the amount you eat at each meal. This doesn’t mean that you can’t eat steaks, or hamburgers or pork chops but it does mean that you have to limit the amount you consume. Your choice of meat should never be bigger than the palm of your hand.

Eat slow. Put your fork down between bites. Give your body time to recognize that it's full. When you are full stop eating no matter how much remains on your plate. And, never, never, go back for seconds.

Stay away from soda pop. They contain high fructose corn syrup which is sweeter than regular cane sugar. It’s also cheaper, which is why corn syrup replaced sugar in soda pop a number of years ago. One thing for certain is that it alone can add weight to your body. Likewise, eliminating it completely from your diet can by itself cause your weight to drop. Replace the soda pop with water. Drink as much water as possible. Yes, this will cause you to Pee a lot which is good for weight loss.

Stay away from fast food restaurants. Even their salads aren’t good for you when you add the dressing.

Eat fresh fruit if you need a snack.

Eat whole wheat, not white bread.

And, of course, exercise as frequently as possible. Vary the type of exercise you do because if you do just one thing it quickly becomes boring.

Don’t expect overnight results. It took you a lifetime to get where you are now. Give it a few months to get where you want to go. It will happen. Fast weight loss is not good for you and generally returns just as fast. Learn what to eat and how to eat and you will remain thin.

Most of all, don’t give up. And, remember, if you fall from the diet go right back into it the following day. Everyone has to take a break. Everyone sins. Don’t worry about it. Just go back to your diet regimen.

[Anubis Nine]

H2orowe! Walking to and from school is a wonderful way to keep thin. It can start your day off with a little bit of a boost so that you feel energized and well... the walk home isn't so bad. XD My walk is ten minutes to school and all it keeps a whopping 20 pounds off my figure. (Which I promptly gained back last summer) so remember to keep it up when you're not walking to school.

Or none of your clothes will fit. And that sucks. (For not hurting feelings, I'll maintain that I sat on my butt and used the computer while eating cheese ALL summer long. I went outside about thrice)

Most of all, good luck! Everything Ruaidhri said was right. ;)

[Pfalzer]

Any one can be not fat. I thin thought when you have reached the bodies capacities for storing lipids and using them improrperly it becomes a hassle to become slimmer. And that is the individuals fault.

[Myrsilus]

Yo h2, I'm glad you have some options presented to you now. Especially with all the help we're giving you. I know you can pull through with this.

I used to walk to and from school everyday for more than 5 years at one point, and because of that I attained gains I never realized I was achieving. Keep to it... If you get offers for rides home, don't take them. Get your ass walking. :D

Ruaidhri pretty much narrowed it all down for you... One very important thing I want to emphasize, though... EAT SLOW. I've experimented with this my entire life without even realizing it. You start eating fast and you'll find yourself becoming full. Don't aim to become full. Eat slowly and take short breaks to let the food settle. You'll start seeing that you are eating less and less, which is key. Many meals, small portions.

I know you have free time in your day man... Use that free time to exercise. Watch t.v. and do some crunches or, if you can, leg raises. Or try out some push ups. I've also found just standing in one place and hopping over and over can prove to be a great work out. Especially if you have ankle weights.

I want to hear feedback on how you're doing man. I'm sure a lot of us do.

[Benaire]

I don't if dieting is a good think I do know eating right is the best thing to do.

[JustTooCrazy]

Anyone else here run Cross Country or Track? I run for my highschool currently.

[NERD]

Apparently it is harder for poor people to eat healthy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/fit_obesity___poverty

[ruaidhri]

Yes, it most definitely is more difficult for poor people to eat properly. Healthy food is more expensive. Again, society pays the tab because when the poor get sick and don’t have insurance we pay the bill through higher taxes and higher health insurance costs. Wouldn’t it be better and less costly if society, the government, businesses, whatever, established a program to subsidize the cost of providing fruit and vegetables to low income families?

Do you ever go into the poorer sections of town? Notice how many kids have a large soda in one hand and a huge bag of chips in the other. They are filling their stomachs with the wrong type of food that will only ruin their health. When they get sick they go to the hospital emergency rooms and because they are poor and don’t have any insurance the hospital must assume the cost. The hospitals’ only recourse is to increase their charges for the paying customers, which increases health insurance costs. Higher health insurance sure costs us more than fruit and vegetables.

I don’t pretend to have the answers for our social ills. There are so many internal problems and our government appears to prefer to spend its dollars on wars. I’ve heard so many people call the poor lazy bums who don’t want to work. Well, many can’t find jobs that pay a decent livable wage especially one that allows them to stock their table with fruit and vegetables. Many are just unemployable because of drug addiction, alcoholism, criminal records and mental illness. But regardless of the cause for their not working and whether or not we as a society provided them with healthy food, when they get sick we always pick up the tab.

[Trump]

Frozen brocolli (8 spears) 85 cents. Frozen mixed vegetables (enough for a serving for 2-3 people) 80 cents. You can get ground beef for like what, $1.50 a pound? that's like $2 to feed a family of 3 and FAR cheaper than any fast food you can get. It's also healthier if you cook and drain the meat well. And there is nothing wrong with eating rice or pasta several times a week, just mix it up a little and everything is fine.

Honestly, you can't blame the fast food companies because instead of being the cause they are actually the RESULT. The reason people are fat is because they are lazy. They don't take the time to buy healthy food, cook healthy meals, or stay active enough to burn calories. Fast food just caters to this, they don't cause it. Perhaps poor people get fat because they are too tired to cook or exercise right after working two jobs? That seems more likely to me than anything else.

In this age of machines doing all our work for us, people only get fat because they are lazy.

[Ichisan]

Fast food is convenience food. Fast food is comfort food. Fast food is cheap.

What is lacking is a mass culture of good cooking and good-tasting food. Not health food. Not fad food. Not charts and diet plans and green salads and punishing exercise routines, but respect for your taste buds and your stomach. Right now, we're hooked on sugar, fats, and salts, and on foods that are cheap to mass-produce and mass-distribute and mass-consume, at maximum profit to the food industry and minimum benefit to the consumer.

It isn't merely minimum nutritional benefit, but second-rate taste too. People like cheap mass produced junk even though they know it's cheap mass produced junk but they believe, because everyone around them believes, it tastes really good. Most people wouldn't know real good food if it jumped up and bit them. I like a good burger once in a while for sure - but it doesn't compare to a sit down Sunday roast dinner is what I'm saying.

They have the right attitude in Europe. Eating good food and enjoying preparing and sharing meals is part of having a good life. Now we're not going to turn French all of a sudden. Food is just not valued in the same way in Anglo-Saxon cultures - but you can value it in your own life if you choose to. Learn to cook. Try new things. Right now your tastebuds are telling you junk food tastes great. It doesn't. It tastes ok, and a good beef stroganoff tastes great. Educate your palate and then you'll know good from bad just from the taste.

It's about getting away from consumer culture. You are not a consumption machine. Your happiness is not measured by the amount you consume. Your problems are not the more reduced the more you consume. Bigger and bigger portions of glop merely turn you into a bigger and bigger pig. Think quality, not quantity.

Driving culture is also convenience culture. People drive 5 miles to a gym to use an exercise bike instead of biking somewhere nice. People drive next door instead of enjoying a stroll. Some moderate exercise every day and an active hobby is all you need, and is part of a good enjoyable life.

Don't diet. Don't punish yourself. Eat well and live well!

Ahhhhh! Feels good to preach! :D

[Trump]

If you believe something tastes good, and if after you eat it your belief doesn't change, doesn't that mean it tastes good to you? You make it sound like fast food really tastes like crap but people keep eating it. Your point is there are so many things out there that taste better, but many people who do nothing but pig out on fast food will never even know the difference.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Food and what's considered good is an incredibly cultural/societal thing. In other words, if everyone says something is disgusting, well, regardless of the taste we will find it disgusting. While there are things in the world that just 'bout everyone finds to be foul, there are plenty of things that certain cultures love, and Americans cringe at, or vice versa.

For instance, I ask my kids here (elementary school kids) what their favourite foods are, and they love things like niboshi (small fish with heads and eyes still attached), or octopus, and you would NEVER get that reaction from a kid in the US. They'd take one look and say 'ewww' and refuse to TRY it, let alone actually like it. Think Green Eggs and Ham by Dr. Seuss.

While the Japanese diet is changing, the reason that they don't have an obesity epidemic over here is because of school lunch in elementary school I'd strongly argue. In the US, we eat exclusively what our families provide us with, and parents are increasingly likely to feed their kids crap, and not push healthy stuff on them because the kids get pissy, and they don't feel it's worth the effort. In Japan, school lunch is provided to all students, and they have to eat it. All of it. Even if they hate it. And that's a major thing.

Kids in the US will see something, and just say 'ewww' and refuse to eat it, usually saying that we don't like it (despite never having tried it). I was definitely a picky eater before I came here. Once I got here, I pledged to try ANYTHING once, and have since found that I love octopus, don't mind eating raw oysters, can chew on a sea urchin even if the flavour doesn't suit me, and consume fish with heads without gagging or vomiting.

Because of the forced diet in elementary schools, kids learn to at least TRY something before they hate it. And they do hate stuff, but at least it's based on experience, not image or perception as much.

And that's cool.

The only time a kid has refused to eat their meal in the school's I've gone to was a pair of American twins who came to a school here for a semester (they're half Japanese) and one of them REFUSED to eat fish. He just said he hated it. Despite never having tried it.

The point that I'm getting at is that views of food, especially hating certain foods (though certainly liking others) are culturally/societally developed. I like lots of snack foods, but there are plenty of times I'd rather have a cup of yogurt or a piece of fruit. Why? The fruit or yogurt tastes better.

And that's based on taste, not societal pressure. When you're raised in an environment like a US elementary school, where trading of bag lunch portions is normal, then you're going to run into a concept of which foods have more 'value' and are therefore tastier (since everyone wants them). Chips, soda, cookies -- all high value. Fruit, milk, or veggies -- little or no value. It doesn't matter if you like carrot sticks' taste better than that of chips, the chips are still more popular, so you're more likely to eat them, all other things being equal.

That's screwed up.

[Ichisan]

We have a crusader for a good diet for kids: Jamie Oliver in Jamie's School Dinners (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/J/jamies_school_dinners/) . He ran up against exactly the attitude you're talking about from kids in primary schools in the UK but with a little deft manipulation he got them to first try and then like decent nosh. Now he's going for the bigtime: the US. (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/28092005/356/jamie-oliver-tackle-obesity.html)

[Trump]

That is true to a point, but smell is a big factor. If the smell of something makes me think about gagging, there's no way in hell I am going to taste it. But other than that I try to be a well rounded individual and make my own decisions about how things taste... after tasting them no matter how creepy they look.

[akitaka]

Often it's known that sicker people tend to lose their sense of taste. Often this is the case with people who are very much overweight; they've eating too much for their body, and have "numbed" out the wonderful experience that is eating. Instead of being able to thoroughly enjoy a dish, it's a past-time instead.

Since the U.S. in particular has a habit of eating in this way, it's harder for us as a societal group to really enjoy food, rather than simply find something that "tastes good". The after-meal feeling is often ignored, and I think this is where a lot of people go awry in food choices.

Often times in eastern medicine, such as Ayurveda, it's speculated that an imbalance in certain personal aspects creates dislike and like for certain foods, and often the less healthier the person, the more attracted to "junk" they are.

And Trump, your pricing/food prep post was great. Often people think they have to shop at Whole Foods or some expensive organic mart to get healthy; this is far from the case, though a little organic doesn't hurt. In the end it's personal effort, and management of time (the latter being a pain since adults work full time).

[Trump]

If you want to eat well (healthy food that tastes good) you can fit it in any schedule. Most people just don't care that much. :(

[Jon885]

I didn't read all the replies to this topic but here's my take on the situation anyway. I don't think it's about how much we eat but what we eat. If you eat whole grain, lean chicken, vegetables liberally and exercise a half hour a day you should be fine. I find drinking a glass of water supresses hunger also but you have to wait about 10 minutes. This is what I'm planning to do on my diet tommorow (seems to be the most popular day for dieting.)